Meghan Smallwood  0:00  
Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition Conversation. We focus on the ins and outs and everything in between of the transition process for families of students with disabilities. I am one of the hosts. My name is Meghan Smallwood, and I am a public school transition coordinator. As always, I have a co-host.

Patrick Cadigan  0:18  
My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am also a public school transition coordinator. So this week we are excited to finish out our conversation with Beth Brady from Sunflower Bakery. Beth was so generous with her time, her insights, and explaining to us about how the bakery works. So without further ado, we'll join that discussion already in progress.

Meghan Smallwood  0:42  
Is there a possibility that, let's say, a student doesn't make it through phase one, would they repeat it, or is there a conversation about if they're what happens next?

Beth Brady  0:52  
Sure. So when a student comes into our programs, I think I shared with you that I review that IEP, I review that psych assessment, I take all of that information and I put it into a snapshot. All of our instructors are professional culinary chefs, so they've gone to schools like CIA or Johnson and Wales. They are not teachers working in special ed. So my job is to create a snapshot that's bite size, right, and digestible for them. So I create that snapshot of how to work with that specific student, very you know individualized, and then if a student is struggling, the students then will say flagged, and at that point the team will have a meeting along with the parent, and will just like you would do in an IEP, add more, add some interventions, some strategies to better help that student, and then so things like a check-in and check-out sound familiar? Check in and check out, or let's say even a daily chart, progress chart, focusing on a goal, and then we'll we'll meet every few weeks after that. If a student is not successful in the program, it depends. So, if a student is having a lot of struggles, whether they be behavioral struggles or they just are not being successful, like I said before, we're not in the business of disappointing people, and we certainly don't want to set anybody up for for disappointment. So, there there are have been times where students have not been successful in our program, but we give it that sort of old college try, and we do a lot of interventions in the meantime. So there's not a lot of students that do leave our program. That's the sort of long answer to your question. There's not a whole lot of students, but we do interventions, meeting with families, doing a lot of the similar, very sort of mirroring a lot of the stuff that you have with an IEP.

Meghan Smallwood  2:42  
I see where your behavioral background comes in handy.

Beth Brady  2:46  
Exactly. So yeah, I'm doing. I have a couple of check-ins and check-outs that I do when we do have a student, a couple of students that have daily charts different from the behavioral charts. Like sometimes it's just a goal, like as far as like specific tasks that they're not being successful at or they're lagging compared to their peers.

Patrick Cadigan  3:04  
Hearing you talking about all of this, how do you help graduates transition into employment?

Beth Brady  3:12  
Great question. So we also have a job placement program. So throughout the program, I told you about those snapshots and those review. We do have also progress reviews in addition to the snapshot where we have the family meeting on a monthly basis. And during those times, our a job placement team will sit in on those meetings because they want to get to know the student and what the student's areas of strength and any deficits that student may have, so they can successfully prepare them for. We have employer partners, but also the students. When they get to job placements, they learn to how to fill out an application, how to write a resume. We'll do mock interviews, and then our coaches will take them out and go on with interviews with them as well, and until they have it, we find a position for them.

Meghan Smallwood  4:10  
And you mentioned you had employer partners. Where are some of the places that your graduates have gone on to to work?

Beth Brady  4:17  
Wegman's has you know they have their bakery there. They have that lots of culinary spaces within Wegman's. Students have worked at Wegman's. Wegman's is an incredible employee partner. Paris Baguette, Bunt Cake, and then Tata and smaller restaurants throughout the DC metro area. Lots of parks; yeah.

Meghan Smallwood  4:41  
Yeah. I know that we've had with our work program some students who have shown interest work in the bakery of the grocery stores, and there are some great people out there who see like the skills within them and just work with them alongside closely to to give them more and more. And it's great to. See the inclusivity on that end.

Beth Brady  5:02  
We're seeing a lot of that now. Hilton came out recently. I think I might have shared it with you when I had met with you. That Hilton came out with a study recent. It was in the fall.

Meghan Smallwood  5:13  
Oh yes, you shared that with me. That was very interesting.

Beth Brady  5:16  
And what it says is that 60% of people with disabilities that are employed end up working in the hospitality space. In addition to that, people with this learning differences are 3.5 times more likely to stay at a job than their counterparts. So when people had seen this, with particularly in the hospitality industry, and there is a bit of a they're scrambling for employers because a lot of stuff that's going on. This is globally happening. They're looking to see better ways to sort of accommodate. This is a huge swath of our population, and this is a group that to make space for them is is lucrative and advantageous for the employer, so particularly in the hospitality space. So, like I said, places like Hilton and other big companies are expanding to better be more accommodating for our students.

Patrick Cadigan  6:15  
One of the things that I think is so cool is a like I had said before, I walked into this discussion and I really didn't have a firm understanding of what sunflower is and what it does. But then on top of that, you also come with an education background. So wearing those two hats at one time or another, what advice would you give businesses that want to become more inclusive employers.

Beth Brady  6:42  
I think the first step is that sort of gatekeeper space. I think the way in which they recruit is really important. So when I see things in when I see these advertisement, whether on deed or other spaces, excellent communication skills becomes a deterrent automatically. Right. So you're looking at that and thinking that's not me. So maybe I don't want to say lowering the expectation, but more of simplifying the expectation so it becomes accessible just to the audience that's reading that. It sounds like oh, this place is going to make space for me, having that in and of itself, I think would be attractive to people in the learning differences space. But also, like simplifying language being accessible in terms of how they train people with learning differences. I think there's this huge gap from what we do in education or what I did in education, where we're chunking materials, simplifying language, allowing wait time for processing information. That sort of a thing, and that's again that goes to the gatekeeper who are doing the interviews? That you're allowing for that wait time, not simplifying the language, that sort of a thing. And then when, if and when you hire somebody with a learning difference, that within that space, simple things like color coding some of the equipment is helpful. Maybe just all around the sort of making space for people, if that makes sense. I'm trying to to think more about as far as specifics. As it was, it would be color coding materials, simplifying directions, like that. That the training in and of itself, I think, needs to be simplified as far as that language goes, and and allow that processing time, yeah.

Meghan Smallwood  8:51  
And I think like that's something that could work for anybody, right? Like color coding or simplifying or putting a visual up. Like everyone benefits from that. 

Beth Brady  9:01  
Oh, thank you for the visual aids. That's the one. Thank you. Yes, you know I can use those visual aids. Yes, and we all use it, right? So, like when we're driving along the highway, the red stop sign is a red stop sign for a reason. If you look at your stop lights, it's red, green, and yellow. But there's a reason why it's not one because people have color blindness. So if it's one, if it's just flash in red and it goes yellow and green, somebody's not distinguishing between those colors. So you have it stacked on top of each other. Throughout life, we have that. We have signs and we have indications for all of us, and it accelerate if it accelerates learning for somebody with a learning difference. It accelerates learning for all of us. I do a training with our staff here because again, I'm working with culinary professionals to better understand executive functioning and processing, particularly related to working men. So I do a an exercise where I shut the lights down, and I read seven complex words related to things like boating or let's say automotive. But they're complex, multi syllable words, and I say close your eyes, and I give them seven, and I said, and I'll ask, can somebody repeat the seven words that I just shared with you? Zero hands are raised because the average human being is not retaining seven complex words that they never heard before. And I flip the lights back on. I take those same words and I apply them to a boat and a car, and I give them five words, and then I say, "How many of you can tell me with everybody's hands up? And I said, "Okay. So I just gave you a demonstration of the same information, but I made it accessible for all of you. And the difference is, and working with a person with a learning difference, is that you got to have the lights out, and so I preserved your dignity, right? And I didn't put you on the spot. So just imagine the person with a learning difference giving them multiple words, multiple syllables coming at them with an audience watching them, and you just see heads like your face right now nodding. The same thing happens over and over again when I do this presentation, and the turn around because again I'm working with people that are professional culinary chefs. The turn around in the way in which which we communicate with our students, you see these improvements, and over time, you see the adjustments. So when you talk about making space, there's an example of making space.

Meghan Smallwood  11:48  
That's a great example and one that I think a lot of businesses would benefit from hearing. And I think like the data speaks for itself. Like you, you shared how the longevity of their employment is just so much greater than someone who might not have a disability. They want to work. They're motivated to be there. I mean, we've met many individuals that graduated from our school system that are at the same job 15 years later because they're so proud of what they do. So I think it's just a matter of continuing to break through to the businesses and to show them what they have to offer, so we appreciate all the work you're doing on in your organization to do that.

Beth Brady  12:28  
Thank you so much, and absolutely. And there's another fun fact or statistic: 80-5% of the public want to see people with learning differences and people with disabilities in the professional spaces. 80-5% That's staggering. I was just recently talking to a gentleman who has a non profit in London, and he works trying to make. It's an alliance for making space for people with disabilities, and he works with big organizations and big corporations. And he shared with me about one of his the people that he worked with one of the employers, and they had this is some big hotel in London, and they have a person with Down syndrome that works at the front desk. And when they got feedback, it was that 90% of customer feedback was their favorite person in the hotel was this young man, so just to give you perspective, this person is making a difference for the customers. So that's your bottom line. So I think conveying that and communicate that and the awareness of that is going to be paramount because the public wants it, and it's beneficial for the both the employer and the employee, so...

Meghan Smallwood  13:44  
Just out of curiosity, what's the most popular item that they make from Sunflower Bakery?

Beth Brady  13:49  
Sure. So it's the hollow bread is one of our sort of premier items, and that is signature items here. Everybody loves that. We have lines coming in on Thursdays for people lining up for the hollow bread, and we do a bunch of different flavors, and it's really amazing. We also have tons of gluten-free items, dairy-free. Yeah, so we have dairy-free as what? You are you are you gluten-free guy?

Patrick Cadigan  14:14  
My wife is.

Beth Brady  14:16  
So I'm gonna I'm gonna hook you up right now that we have this. I say this because I I never really delve into that space before of gluten free, but then when somebody was talking about this apricot cupcake that we have here, and I was like, why not? And I I began like cutting it into four. I thought I'm just going to have a quarter, and then I'm going to put the rest away. I'm still not going to eat that. So I started with a quarter of it graduated to half, and then the whole thing was just a vow. And I'm like, "That might have been the best cupcake I've ever had. I'm not just because I work here. I am telling you, I've been lined up for this cupcake. It is phenomenal. It's super pretty. And then the other item is lemon bars. We do this amazing, these amazing lemon bars. Phenomenal, only because I'm prejudiced. All of our items are amazing, and the people that make them are amazing.

Meghan Smallwood  15:05  
That's the best part about it, yeah.

Patrick Cadigan  15:07  
that's one of my questions. Also, is that okay? So I understand that you have the customers in terms of the most popular items, but from the participants themselves, do what are their like? Do they have particular favorites that stand out to you.

Beth Brady  15:20  
It depends; they come out, so they're all lined up. So fun part of my job because I'm working with students, and particularly I tell you, like some students that will need additional supports, and I see success. They'll come into my office, and I say I have something special for you. So I get I get a little bit of inside scoop of what they like. Lots of cookies. They they really like our cookies, the big cookies with sprinkles. They like the chocolate chip cookies. They they're they're big cookie. The students like the cookies.

Meghan Smallwood  15:49  
So we showcase Sunflower Bakery a lot, and I'm sure there's people listening here who are going to ask, how can they support your mission? What can they do to help keep you going?

Beth Brady  16:00  
I love this question. So there's multiple ways to support us. Of course, there is on our website, like just donating to our company. Like you could go online and just there's a barcode there. You can donate money. You could of course come in here and just buy our cookies and our pastries and all of our treats. But in addition to that, there's also the volunteer opportunities. So we're opening up for volunteers to come in. We do obviously a security check on anybody that would choose to come on board. But yeah, come on board and volunteer with us. You could work help out in the kitchen, whether that's work side by side with some of our pastry chefs and all culinary chefs, or work to help out our students. That would be great.

Meghan Smallwood  16:46  
Oh, that's fun for someone. I'm thinking like a high school student or college student who is interested in the culinary field, and then they get to work alongside these individuals. Like, what a what a great opportunity!

Beth Brady  16:56  
Absolutely, and lots of and we do have lots of volunteers coming in, but particularly around the holiday season too, like packing, they'll come in help us pack. But but working with the students, like a lot of times they'll work with the students because again, it's a busy space. So coming in and having that opportunity to interface with people with learning differences is really it's beneficial to everybody.

Patrick Cadigan  17:20  
This is actually kind of taking a step back a little bit, but I am curious now. You had mentioned you employ professional chefs. How do they find you, or do you find that there is a particular characteristic of the chefs that you ultimately end up hiring?

Beth Brady  17:40  
That's a great question. You have to have the right temperament to work with students with learning differences. Patience really, really important. So having some understanding, or maybe worked with in some time with people with learning differences is helpful. I also part of my job here is to do trainings. We do trainings on Mondays, about once a month. That we're doing trainings where I talk about things like the ABCs of behavior, antecedent, behavior, and consequence. I'll talk about how to respond to a student that may be struggling. So your help prompt weight strategies, or we'll talk about executive functioning, how to work with students with have you know issues with processing, or students that may have issues with you know memory and stuff like that. So yeah, we we do trainings routinely, but definitely we want chefs to come in here that work with our students that are interested in working with our students and motivated. That's paramount because we are student centered and everything's about our students. So having people that really want to work in with students with learning differences is really important. Often times, what you'll find at Sunflower is a direct connection to somebody that has had a disability. For complete disclosure, I have a brother who had a car accident when he was in second grade and had a traumatic brain injury. I'm a little bit older, so you know that was back in the day where we had self-contained classrooms. This is long before IDEA 2004, and as a byproduct of that, it sort of enabled me to be an advocate and want to do something in this space. And what you'll find at Sunflower is a large percentage of our population that works with our students have have have some connection to that space, and as a result of that, their level of empathy, their level of compassion, super high.

Patrick Cadigan  19:53  
I'm glad to hear you say that because my background, I am I am a parent. I have two children, but. They are neurotypical, and the people that I have surrounded myself with, and Meghan is one of them. She's probably at the forefront of it. One of the things that I've always found interesting is is that she's so good at what she does, but she'll be the first to tell you about her sister. She has had that experience, and when we were talking about the Business for All fair, so many of the conversations that I heard people having, this was from both Meghan and Aaron, the other transition coordinator who put on the show, that it seemed like that there would be an easier path into employment if someone that they were working with had a background or an understanding of that population, and so it's always been for me. I've always considered myself to be an outsider, so I always find it fascinating when I watch what you guys do.

Meghan Smallwood  20:52  
Yeah, and we will see that when we go to new businesses to start talking about our work programs. A lot of times, the whoever I'm talking to, the manager, the owner, will be like, "Oh, well, you know, my cousin has a disability, or I grew up next to a neighbor with it. Like there, there's people. Everyone has a connection in some way or another, and I think that's a way for them to understand and then grow on that conversation from there. And it has changed, like you said. You know, my sister was in self contained as well when she was in school growing up, but now she she does work and has a job for a couple days a week. So it is interesting to see how it's transformed, and I think like we just need to make sure the rest of the world is catching up.

Beth Brady  21:38  
For sure, it's that six degrees of separation. I was we I was down in the islands on vacation and were just swimming, and then I end up getting a conversation with a couple from New England, and then with of course the conversation is like, "What do you do? So what I do comes up and immediately shared with me that they have two children that have they were neurodiverse and fascinated by what I did, and their sons like in the transition space. So yeah, it's it's we all know it now. I think that particularly when we see the rise in autism spectrum disorder, that there's so many people that it's almost impossible not to be somehow connected in some way to it, and then and it's like that saying that when you know better, you have a responsibility to do better. And I think people recognize that more and more that this we have to take on these responsibilities as solid.

Patrick Cadigan  22:33  
Well, Beth, we cannot thank you enough for coming on and talking with us about. Thank you anytime.

Meghan Smallwood  22:38  
Yeah, and I have you on my list for the fall, so we can touch base about. Beth was telling me that she had got like pushed into some of the classes in Montgomery to kind of do like a demo of what they do there. So, and I know I've talked to a couple of our transition teachers of students that would be great to do this with. So, I definitely would love to talk more about that, and then to get our teachers over to see the space.

Beth Brady  23:01  
I host sometimes on. We'll host teachers during staff development days. So teachers.

Meghan Smallwood  23:08  
Oh, nice!

Beth Brady  23:09  
Yeah. So if you guys, I do a tour and I'll do okay presentation. I know. And we have snacks in the back. We'll take a walk through and do a presentation. I'll share best fun facts about what's going on in the hospitality industry.

Meghan Smallwood  23:22  
That's awesome! I love it.

Patrick Cadigan  23:23  
Well, Beth, and then do a quick plug. How can people find Sunflower?

Beth Brady  23:28  
Well, they can find us online. Just go to Sunflower Bakery, and they could. It comes right up. It's actually one of the first places that comes up. And if you put in learning for students with learning differences, that'll also come up.

Patrick Cadigan  23:42  
Well, again, we thank you, thank you, thank you for coming out and talking with us.

Meghan Smallwood  23:45  
Yes, thank you.

Beth Brady  23:48  
I appreciate you guys.

Meghan Smallwood  23:50  
Yeah, we appreciate you.

Patrick Cadigan  23:51  
Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you. 

Patrick Cadigan  24:01  
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