Intro

Patrick Cadigan 0:00

Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition Conversation. We focus on the ins and outs and everything in between of the transition process for families of students with disabilities. I am one of the hosts. My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am a public school transition coordinator. As always, I have a co-host, and who would that be?

Meghan Smallwood 0:18

I am Megan Smallwood, and I am also a public school transition coordinator.

Fresman Year

Patrick Cadigan 0:22

Just a heads up, there will be no new content this week, and we apologize for that. There was some last-minute scheduling snafuos that prevented both Megan and myself from getting together, sitting down and having another discussion. But in order to be able to push out something, what we did was we went back into our archive of discussions and we pulled together all of the content from our Empowered Beginnings discussions. Longtime listeners will remember that we cataloged what transition could look like for students starting in their freshman year and going all the way through senior year. So, needless to say, this is a little bit different because when we threw it all together, boy, it's a really long discussion. But it's one of those where you can start at the beginning, get a sense of what's going on, and then just move through as you need to. So again, we're sorry that we didn't get any new content out. It was absolutely our intention to do so, but please enjoy what we have put together and we will talk to everyone soon. What are we doing this week? What are we talking about?

Meghan Smallwood 1:51

I think a big topic that's in mind with all these uh transitions to high school is what to expect when you leave that safe space of middle school and go on to the big school.

Patrick Cadigan 2:03

Yes, Megan has definitely nailed that one. This conversation offline we've had a couple of times because as an eighth-grade middle school teacher, I have more than several parents who are freaking out right now over the whole transition process and you know what that's going to look like. And this is just going from middle school to high school. So again, but there have been some changes this year. And where do those changes start?

Meghan Smallwood 2:28

There have. And for some of you who may just be starting the transition path at 14, um, it won't look any different because they're new to you in general. But for those who have had pages on the IEP, transition is now more embedded throughout the IEP as per the state of Maryland. They want to make sure that it's considered by everybody, not just like a transition coordinator or one person on the team. They want case managers, related service providers, obviously parents, everyone involved to be aware of transition and planning for that post-secondary world. So moving forward, the transition part will actually be appearing on the present level pages. So underneath where you might have like a reading present level, written language, math, there's going to be secondary transition. And that will be updated every year based off of those interviews that are completed, which we'll talk a little bit more about with your student. But it can also include information from other people on the team. There might be feedback from teachers, feedback from parents. There'll be information about things that are occurring, you know, throughout the year, like test scores if they took the PSATs, any service learning, just a whole variety of things to kind of show the student as a whole as you're starting to plan that post-secondary path. So that's the big change. And then there will be other, there'll still be the other transition pages, but again, it's just a little more updated to make sure it flows into what else is going on in their daily routine. And it transition isn't just a separate page or separate box to think about. We have to think about it all around because you can't just look at one piece of a student, you have to look at the whole person.

Patrick Cadigan 4:15

Yeah. So uh as the middle school teacher, this was something that was very top of mind this year, and I really was paying a lot of attention because these were changes that were effectively happening, they were rolling out over the course of the year. So at the beginning of the year, we got some information. Quarter of the way through the year, we got some more information. Halfway through the year, all that information changed and they wanted something different, and you know, blah, blah, blah. So there was really a lot in there. But to walk this back, let's start with IDEA, right? The federal law that talks about the requirement for special education. So student hits 14, and part of IDEA says that that at age 14 is when those transitions, transition requirements are triggered. Now, there are some states who it actually is younger than that. However, in most cases, or at least where we are, it is still the age of 14. So, with this new change, like Megan was saying, in the PLF, there are now delineated out two separate areas for transition, which is going to be education and employment. I will tell you what I have done with this based on the feedback and the information that we have gotten. And where I always start is the student interview. And we've talked about student interviews before because then they also play into the digital portfolios and things like that. Like this is when I do a student interview, I'm asking them about interests. If you like to read, what books do you like to read? If you like to cook, and if you do like to cook, what do you cook? And and why do you like that? And then TV and movies and the same thing. Well, essentially, each one of these interview questions is in the best of circumstances is going to lead to even more information that paints a snapshot in time, if you will, of where they are. And that is that's where we're essentially starting.

Meghan Smallwood 6:25

Can I tell you what I do? Well, of course. Do you want to hear the high school end of it? So I because I you get in that routine, kind of like what you were saying. I do the same thing. I usually have the kids come in and I'm like, okay, how are your classes going this year? Tell me a class that you like. What do you like about it? Tell me a class that's a little bit more of a struggle or more difficult for you. Why do you feel that? You know, they kind of just be at first because they don't know who I am, they're like tiptoeing around, well, can I really tell her what I think? And then it'll come out like, I really don't like the teacher. And, you know, we'll be like, okay, well, what is it that you don't like about not this or the teacher, but the the structure of the class? And it might be that the teacher's talking too much, or you know, it the work goes too quickly. So it helps to kind of pinpoint some of those things. Okay, so you're telling me that you really prefer a class that has more visuals, not just the auditory piece. Or so I kind of lead them down that path to get more information out of them. And then I always like to ask them, you know, what kind of activities or clubs are you a part of at school? How about outside of school? You know, do you have any jobs or volunteering? What do you do for fun? And then I start into the whole, what do you want to be when you grow up? Because, you know, at that point they're they're older than the middle school crew and they might have an idea or they've gone and toured some schools with siblings or thought about where they might want to go. But it you're like you've said, it's just about kind of trying to lead them into more questions to kind of get a feel for what they are thinking without them realizing they've been thinking they they might have an interest in and showing them how they can explore that more.

Patrick Cadigan 8:02

Well, and then playing off of that because as it goes into the second part of that of that block within the present levels, so for the middle school, when I am doing what I do is a career preference interest inventory, and then we'll really what that boils down to is I show like block of items, right? Like healthcare, sciences, arts and entertainment. And I say to the students, like, hey, what do you what do you think about these? And again, like Megan was saying, like, that's gonna lead into you know more questions, and you know, because a lot of times the kids are thinking very general and they're like, Well, what does that mean? Well, like, you know, would you want to be a doctor? Would you want to be a nurse? A lot of times what I'll get is I want to be a YouTuber. But again, yes, yeah, I'm I'm recording all of that stuff in there, and then the final piece of that for me is then asking the big question in terms of again that snapshot in time. What are you thinking about when you think about life after high school? Do you is college something that you're thinking about? Do you are you interested in that? Depending on the student, that the the responses can be it's it just definitely depends on the student.

Meghan Smallwood 9:18

Yeah, absolutely. And I know it's hard when you get students who are very very quiet and don't really want to open up much. They feel like I'm really trying. Sometimes I feel almost like a therapist, like, tell me what you think about this. Why do you like that? You know, but it's all those probing questions to really get them to think about it. And I have a lot of students who it's hard to look at the big picture of things because they're so focused on I gotta get this assignment done or I gotta get back to this class and do this. And I also find that with a lot of families too. And you know, like you were saying, Patrick, when they're thinking of going into ninth grade at those transition meetings, rather than questions like, what is doors or what is DDA? I know the questions are more geared toward what's their schedule gonna be like? Where's their locker? You know, what's this gonna look like? So it's more of the here and now rather than the big picture. And I get that, but I think one of the things we hope with the conversations that we're doing is that you can start thinking, you know, on your own about those bigger picture things that can help hopefully guide you through those day-to-day things.

Patrick Cadigan 10:24

Yeah, absolutely. Because then the other part of it is, and this is again one of those things that I've always found really interesting in terms of breaking down between education and employment. One of my favorite parts is the interview with the families. Because then I start to, you know, talk with them about strengths and needs, like what basically asking them to articulate how they see their student, how they see their child. And and then again, focusing in on the middle school component part, what are your thoughts on high school? Like, what are you hoping for for high school over the course of the next four years? And then again, with in the with the intent of starting the conversation, what are you thinking about of in terms of employment? Like, what are you seeing? Like, one of the things that Megan impressed upon me was one of the questions that I always ask parents now is does your child do chores in the house? And if they do, what are those chores? Like, be specific. When you go to the supermarket, are they shopping on their own? Are you shopping with it? Like, what does that look like? It always gleans a lot of really interesting information, at least for me, because like I said, I'm recording all of it and then putting it in that in those in those present levels.

Meghan Smallwood 11:37

Yeah, absolutely. And I also like to see what when I send the questionnaires home to families or even in the meeting if they share, I like to compare what the family's goals are or what they see for their child compared to what the child's told me and if they align. And if they don't, I'm trying to have that conversation, you know, in a safe zone zone like the IEP meeting about, you know, this is what the your child's saying they're interested in, and maybe we can talk about, you know, ways to get to give them more experience to to explore whether that's something, and it's okay if they have this thought now, it could change, or just just to put it all out in the open. Yeah. Because I think one of the worst things is when we get to one of those final meetings and the parent still thinks the child's going to college to be a doctor, and the child wants to go to you know, trade school to be a mechanic or something like that. It's just it's very hard for everybody.

Patrick Cadigan 12:29

Well, and speaking of hard, I we do we do want to throw out a disclaimer that, you know, obviously the the the conversation up until this point, we are talking about students who, when we are interacting with them verbally and then they are responding verbally. But make no mistake, there is absolutely ways to talk with students who are non-verbal. They are they can be indirect, it can be direct. Again, you we are always thinking of it in terms of environment. So non-verbal students have just as much to say and offer. However, we just kind of have to look at it a little bit differently. So, to that point, one of the tools that I have used, and Megan, I think you and I have talked about this before, so you probably use it as well, is that it's what's referred to as a photographic inventory, right? These are effectively pictures of jobs, different activities, and we're looking for feedback from the student, and also, and again, this is where the families also help, and the teachers as well. And even with our diploma bound friends, I am going to the teachers as well, and I'm saying, Hey, look, when I'm thinking about this kid's future, this is what I'm thinking. What do you think? And then they'll again they'll throw out strengths, needs, challenges, you know, what they think, all of that is valuable, great information. And again, I'm I'm tacking it all in there.

Meghan Smallwood 13:59

Yeah, and like you said, we we individualize it. I mean, we're not I have you know a whole plethora of different inventories, so I'm gonna pick which one I think will work best for a student. So if there's a student who is a different type of learner than one of my other diploma-bound students, I will go for one that's gonna give me more information that they can, you know, easily understand and read. I've created a bunch of different picture interest inventories just to kind of give a variety, so it's not the same one every year, too, because it's so interesting to see when they're presented with different types of pictures, what they might select. And I know parents have often asked, and I think we've addressed this before, well, it's just the picture, like they they don't show any interest in actually cooking. I'm like, yeah, but there's something there. Like something drew them to that picture of whether it's the food, whether it's the action of cooking, they have some kind of like for that. So obviously, observations is so important too, whether it be in the school setting, if we put them in a foods class to see if they really like it and if they do what it is they like, or if you're having them help at home and getting that information. So again, it's such a collaborative approach and there's such a variety that can be used to find that information. I think we just need to make sure that we're doing all that.

Patrick Cadigan 15:10

Playing off of the conversation that we've had in the past with somebody like Meredith, sometimes you have to think outside the box in order to find the information that you're looking for.

Meghan Smallwood 15:21

Absolutely. And and like you mentioned, the teachers too. I've had case managers who have approached and I'm like, hey, you know, I met with the student and I didn't really get a good sense of what they were thinking in terms of, you know, a career or plans for after school. And this case manager who might have a really good relationship be like, oh, he really told me that he wanted to do this. Like, can do you have any information on it? I'm like, absolutely. So then approaching them with that specific information is a little more motivating, you know, and gets that conversation going. So definitely call on your resources.

Patrick Cadigan 15:50

Speaking outside of the box, I recently had a conversation with a family, and uh now again, this is a transitioning middle schooler, but uh one of the things that the family had talked about was an enjoyment. The student loves to travel. And when they travel, they stay in hotels, and the student loves, loves, loves hotels. And I will tell you that that sparked a memory in me that there is a uh program that I'm familiar with, which is to say that I am familiar that it exists. I've never actually like known anyone to go through it, but it is it's a program that uh it's called Bridges. It is through the Marriott Corporation, and I know about it because I have a friend of mine who works for Marriott, and but it is designed and intended for people with disabilities to be able to get jobs within the hotel industry. And so I sent that along to the parent and I said, This may not apply now, but just store it away somewhere. You never know. Things might change, but I thought that was really good.

Meghan Smallwood 16:52

Yeah, but it also shows them that there's opportunities out there, you know, there's there's possibilities, and just that one little connection kind of opens that door.

Patrick Cadigan 17:02

Yeah. So again, we have employment, we have education. The information that goes into those present level summaries is going to include lots of information from teachers to families to the students themselves to outside influences, inside influences, that has been one of those changes. So now we shift our focus. We have a student now who is in ninth grade. The problem is from the family perspective, what should I be doing to prepare my student within the context of the freshman year of high school?

Meghan Smallwood 17:44

So the answer to that question is Megan, a lot of things, but they're not overwhelming things. There are little things that can be done and should be done, you know, and I know some of the things, and you've noticed on our webpage if you've been there, some of the things we have listed for diploma-bound students and some things are listed for non-diploma-bound students. And we try to make it a little black and white there, but we know it's gray and it's completely individualized. So we definitely recommend you checking out all the information to see which bits and pieces would apply for your situation. Because, for example, starting with the freshman year for a non-diploma student, we really encourage that they are participating in their IEP meeting. And that goes for all students with an IEP, even our ones who are nonverbal. They all should be in attendance because the information's about them. And I think sometimes we get carried away and forget why we're all there and who we're there for. I actually had a family once. This mother would bring a picture of her daughter and put it on the table during the meeting. Her daughter was more severely disabled. And so, although she could have been at the meeting and she did show up for the beginning of the meeting just to make an appearance, she went back to class. But the mother kept the picture there for the whole meeting so that we remembered who we were talking about. So when things got heated and things, you know, people were kind of digging their heels or whatever that may be, she's the reason we were here. So I liked that idea, but just the participation in in any form. Something else that applies for all students is to get a state-issued ID card. And I have some families with students who are exiting this year who were doing just that and they're nonverbal students, but it is so important because they have their ID just like everyone else. It has their information, it keeps them safe. It's, you know, just something that they should get used to carrying and hopefully can give everyone a peace of mind moving forward. We always encourage the transition coordinators, particularly, about applying for your state's developmental disabilities agency and your state's vocational rehabilitation agency around age 14. Now, I know it gets a little confusing about what are all these acronyms and what are these terms. Well, the Developmental Disabilities Administration in Maryland or DDA is that long-term funding who usually is there to serve those individuals with more severe disabilities that really need those help with functioning and you know, trying to live as independently as they can after they leave the school system. Doors, the Division of Rehabilitation Services, is typically more short-term funding. I mean, that can be for anyone with a documented disability, age 14 and up. And they'll give you different things. And we've talked about it in other conversations we've had, but they're two different agencies that have outside of school resources and supports that we definitely encourage, you know, you exploring and seeing if it's a good fit for your child. And then something that everyone should be doing, even before age 14, is just having that at-home file for your child. And, you know, before 14, it conclude any the IEP documents that are received, any assessments like a psychological evaluation or educational report that's been completed, any documentation that you might have if you've been with the autism waiver, you can keep your information there. But as you get to transition age, I like to have make sure families have a transition-specific file for applications for DDA, any information from doors they receive. And just moving forward, I have families as they get towards like age 18 and they start talking about, you know, guardianship or receiving SSI, they keep it all in this one place. Because you never know, especially with some of our state funded agencies, I know we know sometimes paperwork can get lost and things get mixed up. So it's good to have all those information in one place so that you have a record of it.

Patrick Cadigan 21:48

And one of the other things that I'm going to throw out there when Megan had mentioned earlier about just what I affectionately refer to as acronym vomit, because as you move into transition and start to Navigate this world. There are a lot of acronyms, no doubt. So that is one resource that we have worked to build. If you go to the website www.postsecondarietransition.com, under the resources tab, the first link there is for acronyms and definitions. Now we always throw out there that it's not a full and complete list because, of course, transition is so individualized. However, in anticipation of that, we have some friends over at Service Coordination and they have a glossary page that has even more definitions. So there is a link on our acronyms and definitions page to that. That if there is something perhaps that you're not finding, I would be willing to bet that you're gonna find it there with service coordination. So give it a look. It's a good one.

Meghan Smallwood 22:55

Good resource.

Patrick Cadigan 22:56

So one of the other things that I wanted to throw out there for our high school friends was you know, kind of as Megan was digging in to our friends who are non-diploma bound with the making sure to work closely with the school's special education team to make sure that that updated that that IEP gets updated, and that's gonna include those post-secondary goals and starting the process of researching and understanding the accommodations that are available at the post-secondary level. Now, again, this is not necessarily something that you're gonna have to worry about right away in freshman year, but just something to keep in mind. Good start, kind of familiarize yourself with that vocabulary and some of those things that you know you might have to deal with down the road.

Meghan Smallwood 23:53

But that definitely ties in with the fact that the students and their family should really understand their disability. I mean, I've come across so many students that are unaware that they have an IEP. It floors me that they don't really put two and two together. You know, they've just been getting copies of notes and being pulled out. But when it comes time to talk about what their disability is, they're like, I don't know. I'm like, okay, well, let's talk about what you have, you know, specific accommodations for and moving forward, what you might need at the college level or wherever you go, and they kind of just shrug their shoulders. So it's so important. And I see a lot of case managers who sit with the students on their caseload and really go through it with a fine-toothed comb so that they can fully understand it, because then in turn they can fully advocate for themselves when they know what they need. And it's such a good thing for them to learn how to do at the high school level as they move forward in life, even outside of the next, you know, college or trade school. And when you get into a job, they need to learn how to be able to advocate for themselves.

Patrick Cadigan 24:58

One thing that I'm gonna throw out there, now again, this is focusing in on freshman year, but sometimes I feel like they need to start in middle school as well. But a big, big thing now is social media literacy and working on those interpersonal skills, supporting savvy social media use, including safety and discretion, because that is one conversation that I have had many times this year, that just because you push something out there and delete it, it doesn't necessarily mean it goes away.

Meghan Smallwood 25:34

Yeah, that's an important one. I think also just as you know, you start, like we mentioned, getting familiar with like doors or DDA in our state to see what's available. Also, just encouraging, you know, some career exploration opportunities. And when I meet with students and they might tell me that they're interested in something like, you know, physical therapy, I'll be like, okay, do you know anyone who's a physical therapist? Do you have any connections to that area? And then, you know, they might be like, Oh yeah, my mom's friend has her own office. I'm like, great. Ask if you can go shadow or sit down and talk to her about it. Just, you know, it's great when they have those formal internships or job shadowing opportunities, especially if they go through the vocational rehabilitation services, but even just through family or people that they know. If they have if they know someone who has that career that they can, you know, shadow informally or just talk to about it. It really gives them a leg up to fully understand if that is something that they are interested in pursuing. And then just thinking in general, and this goes for all our families, just making sure you build that support network with other parents, other organizations. And there's so many resources out there in our state for those families of students with disabilities. I mean, I can't stress enough, especially when you're approaching that graduation or exit year, how important it is to lean on others who might have gone through the process already or who were going through the process with you. I know a number of families from my one school that we would go visit agencies and then they would go out for coffee together and talk amongst themselves. I think it just makes everyone feel so supported. It's so important to remember that you are not alone in all of this. There's teams of people out there that you can lean on.

Patrick Cadigan 27:17

Finally, I would say one of the other things to do is start to explore those post-secondary options, right? College, vocational training, employment, community programs. And again, one of the interesting things that I always think of when having these conversations is this is kind of where the flexibility comes in, right? Because this is there can be tension here. There can be tension between what the families are expecting, what the student is expecting, uh, what the reality of the situation is. So, you know, there needs to flexibility as far as I'm concerned. Keeping an open mind in this part can be can be more of a challenge than one might think.

Meghan Smallwood 27:59

Yeah, absolutely. It's not gonna be done overnight, but it's definitely some good points to keep in mind as you start this journey through high school.

Sophmore Year

Patrick Cadigan 28:08

Yes, yeah. And it's one of the reasons that we wanted to kind of start this conversation the way that we have, which is to say that we'll stop here. You know, we're gonna this is we just want you to think of it in terms of, hey, I have a freshman, this is what I have to worry about. There's gonna be other stuff that comes later on, but you know, for right now, just start there. So for this week's conversation, we are continuing our discussion around what parents should expect in each year as their students are moving through high school. For our episode 50, for that discussion, uh, we introduced or reintroduced some of the new middle school expectations around the IEP. However, the bulk of the conversation talked about what pa families can do during their freshman year. So this conversation will focus on what you can be doing during sophomore year. And just a quick note, we want to make sure that the conversation is as inclusive as it can possibly be. So we have broken it down into two camps, our non-diploma students and our which we refer to as our certificate track students, but then also our diploma-bound friends as well. Megan, okay, so the student has transitioned into sophomore year. Where do you think that the families can start for our certificate track friends or for non-diploma friends?

Meghan Smallwood 29:48

Special education, we all know, is not black and white, it's gray. So you never know which bits and pieces may apply. And a lot of this information that we're going to talk about, it's not centered just around sophomore year. I mean, this will be throughout their whole high school career, but we like to make sure you're thinking about it, at least at this point, if you haven't already during freshman year. But when we talk about our certificate students, this is usually the time, you know, you've already hopefully applied to Developmental Disabilities Administration or DDA. Maybe you've done a referral for the Division of Rehabilitation Services or DORS. So you're kind of in that time frame between like 14 and 18, which is when the next big array of milestones usually occur. So this is a great time during sophomore year to do some of that research and you know, background investigation of things to come. And if you have a transition coordinator at your school, they're a great person to have the conversations with, as well as the case manager who may be savvy to some of it. Other parents who have gone through the process or are currently going through the process are a great resource, but just to make sure you take everything that you hear with a grain of salt and double check to make sure it's accurate. Anyway, consider thinking about opening an ABLE account. And I know many have heard of the 529, which is the college savings account. When your child is young, you might have opened one of those. The ABLE account is at 529A, which I think we've talked about in other conversations together. Um, a few times, right? But just to just to reiterate, the ABLE account is that tax advantage savings account for individuals with disabilities and their families. And it's a great account to have just another option in addition to a special needs trust, but you can open it to make sure that you have any extra money for your child put away in there. Because as we've gotten into before, if they were to receive Social Security after 18, you cannot have more than $2,000 in an account at any time. And the Able Count is, you know, safe and separate from that. So doing a little research, there's always pop-up informational sessions about it. It's a fairly easy process to set one up. And they're very uh communicative if you ever have any specific questions. So that's something to start considering.

Patrick Cadigan 32:12

Uh, one other thing that I was going to throw out there about the ABLE accounts, and obviously I don't know a whole lot about it, but they can be very specific to the location in which you live. So there will be a link in the show notes that gives a broad definition or a broad, like covers the idea of able accounts very broadly, but just you know, make sure that uh you are doing the research to your area specifically.

Meghan Smallwood 32:38

Yeah, good point. We in Maryland obviously have it here, but it is in a select number of actually, there's a large number of states throughout the country. So it's good to double check too. Again, like we've mentioned before when your student was transitioning to freshman year, continue exploring those school-based options for them, including work programs. With the students on the non-diploma track, we have an array of work programs available to them within our county. And I know every county has it set differently, but there are options, and you definitely want to get the information to see if it would be a good fit so you can start looking at that future track for your student. I like to sit with my families and backmap. So let's look at the exit year of your student from the school system and kind of backmap how many years out they have and what your plan might be. If they're gonna start in a general work program, if they're if they have the independence level to go to the next step and where they might ultimately end before they exit. So you want to work with your school-based team to figure out what might be the most appropriate classes for them to take based off of their needs, skills, and abilities, and just gather all that information. Again, talking to other parents to hear about the different programs and how it runs and all the specifics about them. But if you know your child has a certain interest, see what else there is out there, even besides the work programs. You know, our school system offers a variety of different career academies. There's different electives that are suited for different areas that, you know, of our interest. So just to make sure it's individualized.

Patrick Cadigan 34:16

That is also a conversation that we have had before. So again, check out the link in the show notes. I will make sure there is a link to that discussion because it is actually one of our most listened to discussions.

Meghan Smallwood 34:32

It's got a lot of good information there. Also, like we mentioned with the able account thinking for the next milestone at 18. This is another good time to start considering options when it comes to whether you think guardianship or an alternative to guardianship might be the best choice for your child and your family. So consider consulting with an attorney in order to think about those options and also just to protect their assets and come up with an estate plan for your child's future. There are just a number of workshops available throughout the year from the county, from different attorney offices I know in our county that offer informational sessions about what it means with estate planning and what guardianship or alternatives to guardianship are. So just make sure you're keeping an eye out for information coming from your school, or just, you know, if there's any other social media outlets that you are a part of, I know a lot of times they get posted there as well. So it's a great time for that research piece.

Patrick Cadigan 35:37

And playing off of keeping an eye open, I believe that we're gonna have a discussion coming up with someone who is going to talk with us around that idea.

Meghan Smallwood 35:48

Yes, sir. I think the focus is going to be around one of those alternatives to guardianship, which is supported decision making. Again, it's not in every state, but Maryland has now passed it into legislation. So it's a very exciting and great option to consider when you're thinking about future plans.

Patrick Cadigan 36:06

Then one other option is attending the transition fair.

Meghan Smallwood 36:12

That's a big one. I know in our county we have it every year, and I know all the other counties do as well. And it's just an event that can give you a ton of information and resources about community, school, and job related information. And we typically have breakout sessions specifically about some of those state-funded agencies like DDA and DORS. So it's a great chance to get some of those one-on-one questions answered and really gather up the resources. And I know it can be overwhelming. I stand at the door as people are leaving, and the look on everyone's face with that bag of papers, it's a lot, but it's a great start. And then you can go through and organize your transition folder, which you hopefully have at home, and consult your transition coordinator to get that conversation going.

Patrick Cadigan 37:02

Well, and it's funny because I heard you say that, you know, obviously counties, states, municipalities, depending on you know how it is you're looking at it, that they plan for these things quite often. You are already planning for the next one that I would imagine is coming up in the in the fall of next year, right? Like so you're you're already building that out.

Meghan Smallwood 37:25

I already have the date and plan and location set. So actually that's one of my uh lists on the the summer to-do list to reach out to all the people who hopefully will be attending.

Patrick Cadigan 37:36

Very cool. All right. Yeah. So let's uh shift shift focus a little bit, I suppose. And again, these things can be interchangeable. However, when it comes to the information or some of the some of the steps along the process, how what does it look like for our diploma-bound friends? Where can they where can those families start?

Meghan Smallwood 37:59

Yeah, so there might be a little more rigidness, I guess, to their schedule because obviously they've got classes that they need to take in order to meet those requirements for a diploma. However, if the focus around their student-centered transition plan can continue, and just reiterating what their goals and interests are in terms of a career, what their activities are, and just going through that timeline of what they plan on doing after high school and how we can help support them currently to get there. So that goes into building and exploring their career interests when able. And I know I've met with many students who it's very tight schedule because they need to take this extra class, they need to take a tutorial, they're trying to fit this in. There's a lot going on and they have a lot of pressure, but talking to them about ways that they can just explore the potential career paths, whether it be an academic class that they can fit in, whether it be accessing a career assessment with the transition coordinator or through doors, even, or job shadowing. You know, I've talked to students who have expressed an interest in, let's say, physical therapy, and their parent has a good friend who owns a physical therapist office. Well, we just had the conversation about what if you were to go in and just shadow them for a day or sit down and talk to them about the specifics of their job and what their responsibilities are. It's something that, you know, isn't going to intrude on their day-to-day schedule in the class setting, but they're getting the information and they have that connection. So just looking at those additional opportunities, both within their school day and outside of the school day to kind of help build that career interest. So then when we think about their academic planning, I know that they're working with their guidance counselor to make sure they're on track with graduation requirements. And I think it's important when they have that annual IEP meeting, just to double check on that, make sure there's no surprises, uh, make sure the parents are aware, the students aware, and see if there's any additional support that they need, whether maybe it's a summer class that they have to retake something, if they need an extra support in their schedule, tutoring, anything that's going to help to make sure we get them where they need to be. And then if there is room, hopefully in their schedule, just making sure they have they're able to enroll those courses that align with their career goals. Now that gets very tricky, and sometimes it's disappointing to see that it doesn't work out because they have to retake a class or they've got this extra class. But I also think it's important to note now that it doesn't all have to be done in four years. And that's a huge stigma I come across a lot when we talk about adding on a fifty or even a sixth year. If they are working towards their diploma, but they're not able to do it in that four-year time span. It's okay. You know, it doesn't, there's nothing saying that they have to have it done. And it alleviates some of the pressure when you break up some of those higher level classes back to back in their schedule. So just something to consider. And I think that's something maybe we can have more conversations about moving forward. You know, just looking at an individual timeline. Something else just to think about when you we we are looking at our diploma-bound students. I know we talk a lot about independent living skills with our non-diploma students, but I think it is also important to consider these independent living skills with our diploma-bound students. Just focusing on what they're gonna need after you know, high school, such as budgeting, their time management, cooking, transportation. I send out a parent questionnaire every year for all of my students with IEPs, and I have one specific for those diploma-bound students, and there's a section on there asking how the parents feel they will suffice after high school in all these different areas. And it's always shocking to me to see who checks off no, they're gonna need help, or no, they don't do any chores at home. It's just it's I I'll be the first one to admit, when I left for college, I didn't know how to do my laundry. I had no idea how to write out a check. So those are the things that even if a student doesn't have an IEP, I think it's important that we are making sure that independent living living skills are being addressed as well.

Patrick Cadigan 42:21

It probably also along those lines, this this year, just probably continuing to look into uh those support services, right, that would be available potentially through VR vocational rehabilitation.

Meghan Smallwood 42:38

Yeah, so at this point, if you haven't done like a doors referral for those pre-employment transition services, then this would be a great time to do it. Usually they'll wait a little longer for the VR status, maybe closer to graduation, you know, 18. But it's some a conversation that you can have to see if that might be something that you'd want to complete an application for if you think they're gonna need it after they graduate and they're moving on to that post-secondary world. But yeah, considering what other services they can offer, such as academic assistance, counseling, career exploration.

Patrick Cadigan 43:14

And one thing that I do want to throw out, and I apologize because I know that you've heard me say this a million times, but we're always gonna refer back to the to the services that we're familiar with because of the place that we live in. But each one of these is gonna have potentially could have a different name. There will be a link in the show notes. We found a handy-dandy website that essentially covers all 50 states. And so you just go to this resource and you click on the state that you live in, and it will give you the information for that vocational rehabilitation administration that exists in your state. So it's it's a great resource.

Meghan Smallwood 43:52

Yeah, definitely. Uh so I think we've mentioned about the career exploration adding to your support network, and like we said before. Or just making sure you're connecting with other parents who might be going through this process and seeing, you know, social media is such a great place. Are there support groups that you can join? Are there organizations that also help with the focus of transition in your area? We have many nonprofit organizations in our area, which we are fortunate to have, that offer support for families. And just those shared experiences and advice can be really valuable resources in your journey with your student. Again, encourage extracurricular involvement, just giving them the chance to participate in some of those extracurricular activities that may align with their interests and goals, whether it be a club at school, whether it be a sport, or even volunteer work. I know our students have to do service learning hours. And that's a great chance for them to try and align it with something that might be true interest for them.

Patrick Cadigan 44:53

One other uh nugget of information that I wanted to throw out there. This, as I am looking at this, I'm like, huh, I need to go back and make a change to our website because this also should be for our non-diploma-bound friends as well. I don't, you know, I'm sure that lots of different places have different activities for all different types of students. Here where we live, they refer to it as Allied Sports, and uh they they do amazing things. I have just there was a student that I worked with a couple of years back, and he was in a wheelchair, and I had just found out that that team they literally rigged him up with this. The best way that I can describe it is a fork, and they put it right at the front of his wheelchair, and he plays soccer, and that is how he participates in that sport, and I just thought that that was that was a that was nifty, and I was really happy to see that.

Meghan Smallwood 45:54

And I know there's been other opportunities aside from allied sports, which I love, but we've had students who maybe they were interested in basketball, and basketball is not one of the allied sports. Well, they were able to act as, you know, what is the word like assistant manager or like a Yeah, like the supplies, I don't know the terminology, you know, helping with the basketball team or like the football team. Sure. Yeah, just thinking outside the box. And like you mentioned, I know a lot of these things we're talking about are diplom-bound students, but thinking of our non-diplome-bound students, you know, both of them, both groups, we're gonna explore assistive technology. Might look a little different, but it still all falls under that label. And just seeing what kind of tools and resources that they are accessing or they could be accessing to help support their learning and needs. And I know when we go on our tour of the community college, they have a whole department assigned for that. And it just blows my mind some of the things that they have there to offer. And I'm like, dang, if we just had had our students try this out in high school, that wouldn't be something that they could have been accessing and already had, you know, available to them. So, and there's a number of resources available in our area for that too. So just keeping that in mind. And again, making sure you're starting that exploration process of any post-secondary option, whether it be college, whether it be vocational training, employment, or community program, depending on what the best fit is for your child's goals and abilities. There is no harm in doing too much research or starting too early. Obviously, things may change, but at least you have a general idea of what is to come. And we will always say to make sure you have an at-home folder and to keep it organized and updated. And I know everyone has their own organizational system, but I would love a nice binder with color-coded and labeled and full of chock full of all the resources. Um, and again, things change, so you might need to update, but it's just a good thing to have in a place that you can go through and periodically look at and and add to and refresh your memory on some of the things. I know I've met with parents who will sit down, we'll have a great meeting, and then a week later they're like, can we do that again? Because I felt so confident when we met. And then I went home and tried to remind or reiterate it to my husband and couldn't remember a thing. You know, it's a lot. It's it's tough. So anything you can do to help jog your memory in that notebook will will be a good step.

Patrick Cadigan 48:31

And we've said it before, and we'll say it again. Remember that this is a very individualized process for each one of the families. It could look drastically different from one family to the next. And the reason that we throw that out there is to be flexible, to be patient with yourselves, and just to work your way through it. One wrong of the ladder at a time.

Meghan Smallwood 48:55

Yeah, and it's okay to go to like the transition fair and gather every single paper from every single table. Bring it home, go through it on your own time, and decide, okay, I don't need this after all, or I do need this. You know, better to have it and then figure out later on so you don't miss anything. Because there's things that even to this day, I'll find I'm like, oh wow, that's a great thing. I wish wish I knew about this sooner. But I'm sure along the line somewhere it was there, and I was just overwhelmed, and there were so many other things to look at. So happens to us all.

Patrick Cadigan 49:27

And with that being said, I think that that's a good place. There's clearly a lot of information here. So we can stop the conversation there because by the time we come back to this discussion again, we'll be able to cover both junior year and senior year. However, not a whole lot happens during junior year for the most part, or at least in some cases, like you that's kind of where you can take a little bit of a breather. But then senior year is gonna have a whole lot of information. We'll be able to have that talk. But obviously, we've thrown it out there before. Everyone knows we're working teachers, and this is the summer months. So we have a few more discussions that are coming up, but we plan on taking a break for the month of August. There will be no original content in the feed. We're working on some behind-the-scenes stuff where we can still push out content, but we need to get permission for that content first. So we'll keep you updated. Check out our Facebook feed, we'll be able to throw out what we're what we're doing.

Meghan Smallwood 50:29

Sounds like a plan to me.

Patrick Cadigan 50:38

We're back, and we are going to continue with our discussion around empowered beginnings. Only now we've already talked about freshman year, we've talked sophomore year, so we're gonna jump into junior year and junior year. Megan, what are parents in junior year starting to think about?

Meghan Smallwood 51:04

So I think, like we've always said, a lot of these things kind of are fluid, right? And you're thinking about it more than just one year. It's not just dedicated to junior year or senior year, but when your student is reaching junior year, it's probably close to when they're turning 18. So that would definitely be a time that we're gonna have a conversation about applying for medical assistance. However, many of our friends already do have that if they're on a waiver or for whatever situation they may be in. So it might not be something they need to worry about. But in terms of medical assistance in our state, it is something that the students have to have, even if it's a secondary medical insurance, when they exit in order to access the state funding, which just shows the need for it, the long-term need for it. So we definitely encourage our families to apply. And I'm in our county, our transition coordinators can help the family with that. But usually we find it's easier to do that application process or look at applying for that assistance after you go through the whole social security. I don't want to say fun because it's not fun, we know that, but the whole application process, which I know we've had many conversations around before and other podcasts dedicated to it. But usually that's the order I would encourage parents to do after 18. What you make sure they turn 18 first, SSI and then medical assistance.

Patrick Cadigan 52:36

Playing off of that, as we're getting closer and closer to 18, one of the other things that a lot of families start to gravitate towards is the discussion or the consideration of guardianship or its alternatives, right? Right.

Meghan Smallwood 52:54

And that's something that, like we said, just talk to Audrey about and the pros and cons of both sides. But that's definitely something now as they're approaching junior year, reaching their junior year, you definitely want to be researching, talking to other families that have thought about it, gone through the process. If you have an attorney, if you're looking for an attorney in your area, talking to someone legally about it, and just weighing both sides. I know at 18, too, back to the medical piece, a lot of doctors will remind parents that as your child turns 18, they are seen as an adult. And that's something to think about, even if they're still going to their primary pediatrics office, that it it is going to change because typically the doctors are going to look at them for their answer to the medical questions and not mom and dad. Now that is dependent on the doctor and how close of a relationship and if they know your circumstances, but it's just an overall generalization you need to be aware of because I know families that things pop up and they're sent to a specialized specialized office and they're new to the student, and that's the first hurdle that they're they're dealt with. So just be aware of the changes that come with healthcare transition. And I know Parents Place of Maryland in our area is wonderful about providing information and resources about that.

Speaker 54:11

Well, and I will also throw out there that if you are new to this discussion and you're just looking for some general information or you don't even know where to start, go check out our website. Go to www.postsecondarietransition.com. Under our resources tab, we have two links for one guardianship and then two guardianship alternatives. And within both of those pages, there are a lot of additional links. Links to a lot of stuff. And you know, we always encourage our listeners that if you find if you think that there's something that we should know about or you'd like to share out with other people, hey, send it to us. We'll we'll post it. We've done it before, we'll do it again. We think it's really helpful.

Speaker 2 54:53

Yeah, and there's new information always coming out, especially when you think about the alternatives to guardianship, one of those being supportive decision making, which Audrey talked a lot about. But there's been some great videos that have come out about the information and from the state, actually, that families can watch and you know go over it, you know, numerous times just to make sure they have a good grasp on what it means and what it could look like for their child. So definitely dive in and look at the information out there.

Speaker 55:20

I'll also say that you can always go check out our YouTube channel as well because we've curated a lot of those available videos, if they're available on YouTube, uh, which a lot of them are. We have them in very convenient playlists, so that could also be helpful.

Speaker 2 55:34

Yeah. Continuing on with junior year, I mean, this is usually the time too. If you've applied to DDA and your child has been found eligible for future needs, this is usually that time where the switch can be made if you reach out to the DDA and eligibility specialist with the help of transition specialist if you have one, to make sure that they're seen as being current request because they will be exiting the school system in three years. So we need to make sure that they're still in their system, they're up to date, and that they're bumped up to current request. And that will give you the choice to start selecting an agency for a coordinator of community service. Our our CCS, which is the acronym for that.

Speaker 56:18

One other thing that you could consider is attending a transition fair.

Speaker 2 56:24

Yes, and while we have one planned for our county coming up in the fall, but these are just chock full of information about the community, school-related resources, job-related resources. I know ours has breakout sessions that really go over that specific information about some of the agencies and what's to come after they exit. So it's great to go to every year when it's offered. I know my first year as a transition coordinator, I just went with a bag, gathered up all the information from all the tables, and went home like every other parent, overwhelmed with the amount of resources I had at my disposal. But you know, you just pick away at it little by little, try to like categorize it by okay, this, these go together, these are similar resources, and this is something different. And I think just that exposure will really help you in the long run.

Speaker 57:12

As we're talking about this, I kind of want to shift focus for a second and thinking about our families who will have students who will be graduating with a high school diploma. So, what is a good place for them to start to think about in terms from junior year?

Speaker 2 57:28

Yeah, and I know, you know, with our typical students, that's usually the year that students are really starting to think about college. You know, the guidance counselors are coming in and really talking about them, about researching, deciding what kind of career field they're interested in, narrowing down where they might want to visit and apply to, going over all that great information. Same goes for our students, you know. However, we want to make sure they're considering both college and career readiness. I mean, not everybody may be going to college. So let's look at what other options there are. Are there trade schools? Are there apprenticeships, employment? What kind of job do you want to have? And what kind of schooling or preparation do you need for that? Are you looking in state? Are you looking out of state? I mean, this is really the time that you want to lean on those people that are there to help you and know more about this information to find out what the options are. I think that also plays into that they need to talk to their guidance counselor to really plan for that academic piece and make sure that they have all their graduation requirements covered and plan to be on track to graduate within that four-year span. And if they're not, that's okay. But have a plan to know what that fifth year is going to look like, or if needed, that sixth year. And make sure that they have a viable schedule. So it's not like you're bombarding it and squeezing everything in for four years just because you think it has to be done. We want to make sure it's meaningful and that they also have those opportunities to try out different classes that may align with their career goals as well while they're in the school.

Speaker 59:02

Rolling into that one, then you can also.

Speaker 2 59:23

Yeah, and I think too, you know, we may be talking about students with disabilities, but anytime there's something offered through the county, and I know ours does it for student services for all families, anything that's related to planning for the future in terms of the scholarships, grants, you know, any kind of financial aid option, go to it, just like you would for your other students. I mean, you don't know what they're gonna be talking about, but you could take away something. There's just so many opportunities out there. And if you are looking at college as a path and considering scholarships, you know, there are definitely scholarships dedicated to those students with disabilities. So you want to check out all possible avenues.

Speaker 1:00:03

Well, and playing off of that, and I will say that this is actually a conversation that existed in the Cadigan household recently in terms of filling out the FASFA or the federal student aid form. Even if you think you don't need it, or if you think that the time frame has already passed, just don't be afraid to ask questions. Go to Guidance Counselor, go to anybody that you can think of. We recently ran into a thing where we thought that the time frame to apply for FAFSA had passed. And as it turns out, the college that my wife goes to to get her MBA had some additional resources, and so we're now going through that process. So don't be afraid to ask questions.

Speaker 2 1:00:48

Yeah, you're not gonna find out the answers unless you asked.

Speaker 1:00:51

And then so again, for families and friends who are anticipating going the college route, the idea is gonna be around preparing for those standardized tests if they're gonna take them.

Speaker 2 1:01:01

Yeah, absolutely. And I and you know, just like every other student, you're gonna want to prepare, you're gonna want to take it maybe more than once. But also, I know I would encourage, I encourage all the students at my school to really get research their testing accommodations to make sure you have them in place while you're taking those tests. But also check out to see because there's a lot of colleges that it may be optional now to admit those scores. I mean, things have changed since I know I went to college. So if you are interested in a specific college or you started looking, I would see what the requirements are before you stress yourself out if testing really isn't your thing.

Speaker 1:01:40

And if you need a resource in order to be able to do that, don't forget that we had talked in the past with Maria Pawanski from Think College. So go to thinkcollege.net. That is a fantastic resource as you are researching those post-secondary options.

Speaker 2 1:01:58

And, you know, while we talked about before, planning those campus visits, you're going to see those different places that you're considering for post-secondary education, whether it be college, whether it be a trade school. But I always encourage students too, when you go on those visits, make sure to find out where their disability support services office is and see if you can make an appointment just to meet with them. Every college has one. The way they handle things and the amount of support they provide is different. So definitely check it out. And if you know anyone that's going to the college and might be using them, ask questions and see what they have to say. I know our local community college is phenomenal with their disability support services. So it's we have high expectations after that.

Speaker 1:02:42

One of the other things that I hear quite a lot about is refining those career goals and then working to build out those work experiences, right?

Speaker 2 1:02:53

Yeah, absolutely. You want to just start really thinking about what it is you are interested in doing. You know, what do you want to be when you grow up? I talk to students and they're like, engineering. And I'm like, okay, tell me what you want to do, because that's a very broad topic, and I'm not an engineer. I don't know what you're saying. And then they're like, well, I mean, I want to work on machines or I want to work on computers. So I think it's really helpful. And there's so many great resources out there. I know we've used different programs before. I mean, I know some of our career research development classes use something called like job shadow. And you can actually get in there to the career that you're interested in and look at specific details about it, or they might show you other related careers to that job that I didn't even know existed. It's out there, you just need to really look and find it and explore a bit more. So, you know, don't limit yourself based off of, you know, I just I want to do computers.

Speaker 1:03:52

Well, and playing off of that, uh, you know, it's funny when you were talking about having the conversation with the students and what you very often hear. One of the things that I constantly hear is, Well, what do you want to do? I want to be a YouTuber.

Speaker 2 1:04:03

Okay. Oh, my son says that as well.

Speaker 1:04:06

And I will guarantee you there is a lot more to being a YouTuber and gaining, like, I think that the perception is that you can just hit the record button and then you know the the fan base is gonna follow, but no, no, no.

Speaker 2 1:04:20

And I also have to remind him that you may want to be a YouTuber, but think of all the other people who want to be YouTubers and how many there actually are that are making money from it. The other one I do here is video game designer. I want to be a video game designer.

Speaker 1:04:32

Yeah. And then again, that not understanding the amount of math and the a lot of those technical part that goes into it. A lot of those video game designers are like electrical engineers and like there's a lot to it.

Speaker 2 1:04:48

Well, and when I hear that, especially, you know, freshman sophomore year, I really encourage them to look at some of the career academies they know our county offers because we do have classes in the county that they could experience those parts before they actually graduate to find out if that is something they really like or they don't like. So it's good to see what there is out there in school before you graduate.

Speaker 1:05:11

And I do want to clarify that I don't throw that kind of stuff out there to discourage anyone. I really don't. It's just that a lot of times it's it's like, okay, I hear what you're saying, and but and these are some of the considerations that you have to take into account when you're thinking about jobs like that.

Speaker 2 1:05:29

The other thing I encourage students is that if you think there's a profession that you're really interested in, do you know anybody that's in that profession? Does mom or dad have a friend that's a physical therapist, let's say, that you could actually go and ask questions about the job, or maybe they'll let you come to work one day and just follow them around, shadow them to see it. Those kinds of opportunities would be amazing to really get in there and talk to someone in the field and find out some of the things that you may not be familiar about. It you know, you hear it just. Says general, I want to be a teacher, but you don't know all the background stuff, like you were saying, that goes into a job. So using all your potential resources, you know, inside of school and outside of school.

Speaker 1:06:15

Well, and I'm gonna go in there and then say thinking about outside of school, one of the other suggestions that we often make for diploma-bound as well as non-diploma-bound friends, don't play off those independent living skills.

Speaker 2 1:06:31

You definitely want to be prepared, whether you're staying at home for college or school, or you're going out on your own. It's always interesting to me because the beginning of the year we'll send out questionnaires to families and there'll be a little section for our diploma-bound friends too. And you know, do they need help with finances? Do they not need help with laundry, things like that? And there's a lot of students that still get that help as juniors and seniors, and that's fine. I get it. You know, that's your baby, you want to take care of them, but at the same time, you want to make sure you're preparing them as a whole person. So anything you can work on with your child in preparation for that 18th birthday and after, the more the merrier.

Speaker 1:07:16

Well, and adding to the supporting the whole person, one of the things, and I will say that this made a huge impression on me in the past when you have talked about adding to your personal support network and finding out, you know, those other families.

Speaker 2 1:07:35

Yeah, that circle of support. And I know when I usually start that conversation with a lot of families, you're like, no, I don't have anyone, it's just me, me and my husband, and we're gonna take care of them for the rest of my life. And I'm like, okay, and then what? You know, who else is in your life that is familiar with them and can provide some support? You know, not even when you're gone, but just now, I think it's just so important to know who's around you because they also provide you with connections and can give you more to add to their life to make it more meaningful. So just, you know, think, and it might not even be someone that you would put two and two together and think, well, yeah, they can absolutely help be a part of our circle support. For example, church. I know a former student who, you know, they go to church every Sunday, they see the same people and they have the same group and they're familiar with their daughter. And, you know, when they were talking about her exiting the school system and they went the self-directed path, I'm like, well, who do you know from church that could work with her potentially? And they're like, Oh, yeah, this person's there every Sunday. They know her so well. So just really thinking outside the box.

Speaker 1:08:42

Also, and I know that it sometimes can turn into a little bit of a tricky conversation around the idea of social media, because of course, with some of the connotations that that brings, but both Megan and I are part of Facebook groups that you know that these are these are groups of people, families, parents, students, and they are posting questions, asking questions, sharing out their supports, their ideas, their experiences, stuff like that. I will tell you that used well, social media can be an invaluable resource for families.

Speaker 2 1:09:21

Agree. I also say, though, to make sure you're double-checking things you hear and not just taking one person's word for, you know, be mindful. One person's opinion may just be their opinion because of whatever tainted it or their experience. So yeah, just make sure you're double checking.

Speaker 1:09:40

That then I would say fits very nicely, though, into that notion of building out self-advocacy skills, like you know, hearing information, processing the information, but also for the students and even the families as well, you know, taught like building, like doing it.

Speaker 2 1:10:01

Yeah, and I think junior year is usually when I start really talking to the students when we do transition interviews and asking them, you know, do you know what your IEP says? What are the accommodations that you use on a daily basis? And I can't even tell you how many students look at me and they're like, What? And I'm like, Well, do you get copies of notes? Do you get this? And they're like, Oh yeah. And I know there's a lot of case managers out there that really take the time to sit with the students on their caseload and go through the IEP with a fine-tooth comb to explain it to them. But I I think it's just so important for the students to really be aware of their IEP, what it says and what they're getting, so that they know moving forward what they need to advocate for.

Speaker 1:10:44

Being as that, this has been a conversation that we, this has been an ongoing conversation that we have been holding. But just a very, very quick recap. We have always talked about keeping an at-home folder. Megan, what should, as a as a reminder, what should families be keeping in those at-home folders?

Speaker 2 1:11:07

And I will say, I know since you know, 2020, we've gone electronic with a lot of things. So it's okay if your at-home folder is electronic on your desktop or backed up somewhere. But you want to have the most updated copy of their IEP for sure. You're going to need that when they go on to their post-secondary placement or whatever agency that they might be moving on to, just to show what kind of accommodations they had and sometimes a documented disability. Along with that, you want to have any related assessments, especially that's psychological. If there's an occupational therapy or physical therapy, an educational or speech assessment, you want those as well. And any other relevant information. So if you're getting any correspondence from an adult agency or one of the state-funded organizations, any community announcements, put them all in that folder. I think it's important to know, and we go over this usually with my families in the school, that most organizations, and I found even with most colleges last year, they definitely want assessments within a three-year window. Some were a little pickier. They even wanted it within like the last year or two. But three-year window would be my advice. So if you have, and I know we've said this before, if your child's having a reevaluation meeting coming up and they're reviewing when the last assessments are completed, make sure they're within the last three years if they're getting ready to exit soon. If not, it may be time to talk to the team about having the most recent uh evaluations completed.

Speaker 1:12:39

I would say that that would be a good place for us to pause the conversation for junior year. And then the next time we meet up, we'll be able to have that conversation around the senior year. And senior year is interesting because of the reality that we have diploma-bound students who will potentially be moving on, and then we have our non-diploma-bound friends who will then be transitioning into a different part of will be diverging into a different part of that, and then the expectations moving forward from there. So, yeah, it'll be a really good conversation to hear.

Speaker 2 1:13:16

Yeah, I think that was a good recap and a good way to start our next year off.

Speaker 1:13:21

Good way to start the next year off.

Speaker 2 1:13:24

Awesome. Thanks, everybody.

Speaker 1:13:34

All right, so it took us a while to finally get here, but we are here. As a refresh, we had started a little bit of a series, if you will, that we called Empowered Beginnings, and it walks families through the transition process as their students are going through school. So we started in freshman year, and then we did sophomore year, junior year. But now here we are. It's funny, it's still appropriate to call it empowered beginnings, but we're at the end. This is senior year. And when Megan and I offline were talking about this, we decided that again, we're going to kind of break this down in that we have our diploma-bound friends, which is to say those students who will graduate with a high school diploma, and then we have what in where we are is considered certificate track. In other words, students who will not graduate with a diploma, but they will receive a certificate of completion. So we will start the conversation talking about our diploma-bound friends, and then we will transition to talk about our certificate track friends. But keep in mind that in many instances, a lot of what we will be discussing can be interchangeable.

Speaker 2 1:15:00

You took the words right out of my mouth, Patrick. Because I was just gonna say, sometimes you may start on one track, but it's good to be knowledgeable and informed about both of them because the end result may be a different track, which is perfectly okay depending on what your student's path is. And I'll get to it in a second, but you may realize that there's not enough time to meet all of those graduation requirements. Starting with you know, that student-centered transition plan, which we work so hard through high school to come up with some interests and areas they want to explore to make those final decisions about what they want to do when they grow up after they graduate. So having some decisions about that post-secondary education, if that's where they're going, vocational training, employment, or whatever other transition goal they may have. You definitely want your student to start looking at them if they haven't yet, enrolling in them, and kind of coming up with an idea of where they want to go. Like I mentioned with those credits, you want to be checking in with student services and your school's guidance counselor to see if your student is on track to meet the requirements and if there's any anything that needs to be adjusted. I know we've had discussions before about it may take a student more than four years to complete graduation requirements. And by law, the students allowed to stay in the school system till 21. So it's okay if it takes five years or six years. It's individualized. But sometimes it does happen where, you know, that that gap is closing and the student is approaching 21 and they still have too many credits in order to get that diploma. So they look at another track. And like Patrick said, it's interchangeable and you know, you just head down that one.

Speaker 1:16:49

Yep. So we have finalizing that student student-centered transition plan, coordinating with student services. And the next thing that we're going to throw out there is you want to be participating in the transition meeting or meetings as your student is moving through.

Speaker 2 1:17:06

And it's so important that the student is present for these meetings, but most importantly, that last meeting, so that they're hearing about all this information that we've tried to explain to them as they get ready to leave us and go into that post-secondary world. They're aware of their accommodations. They know what kind of supports they have in place. That way they can actually apply them to their post-secondary goals and be prepared to advocate for themselves. You want to make sure that they are involved and you're involved in transition activities and programs that will help prepare them. If there's job fairs being offered, which I know in our county we have, you want to attend, any kind of workshop for vocational training, independent light living skills. I feel like senior year, a lot of times I'll hear from parents, you know, they really still need to work on those executive functioning skills. Looking at resources for that to help prepare them for the next step is a huge thing as well.

Speaker 1:18:04

And it goes without saying, and I know that this came up in our last discussion, because what we're going to throw out there, completing financial aid applications, but that is probably one of the more stressful things and something the parents are thinking about constantly. But again, senior year, this is definitely a good time to focus on that.

Speaker 2 1:18:24

Yeah. And I feel like it even overwhelms me just hearing that word, and I don't have a child going to college or post-secondary level yet, but just that word FAFSA. Make sure they're using their resources. I know our student services are a great help with that. There's a number of workshops offered, webinars, a whole bunch of people there that can help you through if you have any questions because it is daunting. Make sure to explore scholarships, any grants or loans that might be available to specifically for students with disabilities. There are a number of them out there and they they definitely should be looked at.

Speaker 1:18:59

One of the other things that's coming up constantly, requesting accommodations for standardized tests.

Speaker 2 1:19:06

Yeah. And I mean, that goes back to that necessary documentation, which the student will need when they leave us too. But it is important to get those in place in a timely manner so that they have them to take these tests. And it's one less thing they have to worry about.

Speaker 1:19:22

And I know that this is going to sound like common sense, but again, this is with everything that's just coming out at families or coming to the families, coming to the students, making sure the credits are being done, blah, blah, blah. Make sure to complete those college applications.

Speaker 2 1:19:37

Make sure you have all the necessary parts, you know, the transcripts, the letters of recommendation. Find out if the college you're applying to in requires an essay. Make sure you have them all. Find out when your deadlines are. I know Student Services does a great job of posting them. So just be aware.

Speaker 1:19:54

Be also being aware, one of the other things, again, that it ties in very strongly with this, and Megan's already mentioned it before, but applying for scholarships and grants. And part of that is also being aware of what scholarships and what grants are out there and available.

Speaker 2 1:20:12

Yeah, and make sure to stay up on all the graduation ceremonies. I mean, this is a big deal. You've you've achieved a lot. You want to be able to celebrate and enjoy it. So pay attention to the number of school emails that are coming out about ordering cap and gown, attending rehearsals, any kind of arrangements. I know that they start early. So just being aware of that information.

Speaker 1:20:34

And playing off of, again, because I'm literally in the middle of this as we are having this discussion, being aware of and visiting with disability support service offices at any of the colleges that you are looking at or considering.

Speaker 2 1:20:51

That's something I always talk to my juniors when I meet with them and they start saying that they're visiting colleges. I always tell them while you're on campus, just be aware of where the disability support services office is. If you have the time and you want to stop in or see if you can just make an appointment to meet with someone, it's great to visit and just see what they what they can tell you, what they have to offer.

Speaker 1:21:13

Now, one thing though that I will throw out there, diverging a little bit from the college discussion, there are students who choose to forego college, right? That they want to just get immediate employment. So one of the things that we always throw out there, and this goes back to some of the teachers that we work with in our school system, is preparing for interviews, resume preparation, things of that nature.

Speaker 2 1:21:42

Yeah, and I know within our school system that is covered. It's one of the requirements for graduation to participate in something where they do build a resume and do a mock interview. But there are additional classes that can be taken. There are different agencies or nonprofits out there that offer opportunities to practice this as well. It's definitely a great thing to look into a little bit before you actually have to do it for the real time.

Speaker 1:22:07

And again, with everything that's coming at you, one of the things that we have always communicated in all three of these conversations is adding to your support network. This is not necessarily something that you can do on your own, although it probably feels like you do it on your own sometimes, but add to that support network of yours.

Speaker 2 1:22:30

Yeah, and kind of similarly to that, you want to make sure that you're in in touch with those community resources as well. If you are accessing support services like vocational rehabilitation agencies, you want to make sure you have your applications complete, checking in with them about anything, you know, steps moving forward that need to be done, as well as accessing any of their counseling and academic assistance that offerings that they have.

Speaker 1:22:57

Yeah. So you have adding to your support network, finalizing those community resources. Big thing, Megan, you already brought it up before, but I want to throw it out there again. Building so continuing to build self-advocacy skills.

Speaker 2 1:23:09

Oh my gosh, that's the number one thing I think that we stress, especially in those senior meetings. Like they the colleges don't want to hear from mom and dad. They just want the check to pay for the classes. They want to hear from the student advocating for what they need and what they're going to use as accommodations to access their classes there.

Speaker 1:23:28

One of the things, and again, Megan, you kind of alluded to this, but I do want to throw out there to take a moment and celebrate, no matter how small or or big, celebrate the achievements.

Speaker 2 1:23:45

No matter how long it took, either. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. You did it. That's the important part. You stuck with it.

Speaker 1:23:53

I I was just thinking about this the other day, how challenging, how difficult high school can be. Now, don't get me wrong, as somebody who went through undergrad and a master's course, but just that, I don't know, just thinking back to all those expectations. I suppose I've been thinking about it quite a bit because my son is now at the middle school level and he is having a transition of his own from, you know, elementary to middle and and you know, exploring and discovering, you know, all the differences to that.

Speaker 2 1:24:24

But man, when I just think back to high school, sometimes I'm like, I was thinking of that too, because my son will make in that be making that transition next year to middle school. And I'm like, ugh. And I think of the high schoolers too. Like, I see all the activities that they're a part of and the great things they're doing, and I just look at them and I'm like, my goodness, the the management skills you have to pull this off with the workload I know that they all have now, it's it's impressive. I think everyone that you know gets through high school deserves that recognition.

Speaker 1:24:53

Yes, indeed. Finally, finally, not finally, but one of the things that we have continued to advocate for, speak to, creating and keeping what we refer to as an at-home folder. That folder that has copies of past or current and even past IEPs, if you need them, related assessments that include psychological, occupational therapy, physical therapy, just if you can, if it is an assessment and it was done, you're gonna want to hold on to it. All that relevant information.

Speaker 2 1:25:26

So important, especially if you are going to be using disability support services at the college level. They will be looking for those assessments.

Speaker 1:25:35

It's almost like we've broken down senior year over the course of an entire year.

Speaker 2 1:25:40

In a matter of minutes.

Speaker 1:25:42

Yeah, yeah. Oh, we've got it. We're everything is fine. Okay. Yeah. But like we said, now what we're gonna do is we're going to transition. That was covering for our diploma-bound friends. But now let's talk about our certificate track friends or the friends of ours who are not going to graduate with a diploma. One of the first things as you were preparing for how do you want to introduce this, Megan? I I never know how to how to broach this topic.

Speaker 2 1:26:12

I think, well, you know, and we've talked a lot about this, but I think as you approach that final year, that exit year before your your young adult leaves the school system, that we know that there's a lot of things that we're going to mention that have been ongoing, but it's basically the time to kind of wrap it all up and, you know, get ready for that next that next step. So, you know, your coordinator of community services, your DDA coordinator, that's someone that you've been talking to, hopefully, more regularly than you had in the past. But now is the time that you're really going to want to be hearing from them and meeting with them because they really help to understand the needs of your students after exit and the services that they could access.

Speaker 1:26:59

Yeah. And it's funny because now that you mentioned it, we have had so many discussions that uh sometimes I even forget about those things that we talked. And we have had a lengthy discussion about exit year and what that can look like. So uh check out the link in the show notes because we're gonna want to make sure that you can go back and also listen to that. Valuable discussion. The next thing we're gonna throw out there, and again, this is one of those things, I'm right in the middle of this with one of my families applying for supplemental security income.

Speaker 2 1:27:28

Yep, and it's SSI, not SSDI, because that has come up a number of times lately. I know it's confusing and it seems a little backwards, but SSI is what your individual will be eligible for at 18. SSDI is for someone who had been working and became disabled and can no longer work. So SSI is the focus, and that's that financial help from the government that an individual, once they turn 18 that has a long term disability, can receive. And the money, and we've gone into this in a number Number of other episodes, but it can help provide money for basic needs, just like food, rent, clothing, just to make sure that those said essential expenses are paid for.

Speaker 1:28:12

If you belong to or you follow us on our Facebook page, it's interesting how in parallel, sometimes things happen, and that kind of jogs our memory, and we're like, hey, we should probably mention that. And so we bring it up on our Facebook page. Check out our the link in the show notes. And we recently had posted on Facebook about the SSI conversation that we have had in the past, because again, this is something that we're like actively going through with our families as it's being done. So hence the reason if you see a post on Facebook, most likely something happened that jogged our memory.

Speaker 2 1:28:53

So at this time, you really want to be visiting those adult agencies and different providers that are available that you could potentially use the DGA funding for after your individual leaves the school system. I know we've talked about that before as well. And we have a number of resources available on our website for them. And I think a list of questions that you can ask the different providers based off of what you're looking for.

Speaker 1:29:16

Yeah, it is a good practical working list of those questions that you can ask. And again, this goes without saying because we have mentioned before about our home folder, but gathering those school records, this is essential, especially when it comes to DD developmental disabilities or VR services, if that's something that you're utilizing, but you are going to need those records for eligibility determinations.

Speaker 2 1:29:46

Yeah, those school records. This is really the time. And hopefully there's been some planning ahead of time and back mapping done by the school to help you with that, because especially for DDA's purposes, they will really want a psychological evaluation within the last three years to help while you apply for the waiver. Additional evaluations are helpful, like the education, speech, occupational therapy, or physical therapy. As long as in addition, a behavior plan or a functional behavioral assessment, those can help too when you are doing all of the paperwork for the waiver. But that psychological evaluation is very, very important.

Speaker 1:30:25

One of the other things, and again, this is something that we've had a discussion around. So we are going to throw this out there, but it comes with a big asterisk. Considering medical power of attorney for your student, and this kind of delves into like guardianship or those alternatives to guardianship. So, in no way, we've said it before, this is in no way legal advice. However, it is something to think about and consider.

Speaker 2 1:30:52

Yeah, we really have gone into a lot of detail about this, and I know we had some good conversations about the alternatives that are available, but it's definitely something if you haven't thought of yet to start thinking about. And, you know, I think advice from many people we've talked to is to look at the least restrictive option before heading to the most restrictive option, which would be guardianship. But, you know, it's based off of what works best for your family and what fits your needs the best. So we have a bunch of resources again on our website for both types. So make sure that if you haven't considered it yet, it's something that you are considering.

Speaker 1:31:34

And again, something that we've talked about before, but we're going to reiterate again as you were preparing that exit, building into and adding to that support network.

Speaker 2 1:31:43

Yeah, that circle of support is so key. I mean, I know when I talk to parents and I try to talk to them about future planning, it is an overwhelming and scary topic to talk about. What happens when, you know, you're not here anymore and your child with a disability still is, and you're the one who's been doing everything for them. So, as scary as it is, as much of other things you have on your plate at the moment, it is something to keep in the back of your mind, especially as you're making these decisions for those future plans. Keep those people around you close to you in the loop, ask for their advice, just make them aware of what's going on.

Speaker 1:32:21

You know, again, it's so weird that you know, we basically come up with this list of things that we want people to do, and it it in no way addresses the totality or the enormity of what it is that's happening, but boom, there you go.

Speaker 2 1:32:38

Yeah, I mean, in an in a nutshell, right?

Outro

Speaker 1:32:41

Yeah, there's your list. Now, we will throw out there that we've made many references to going back to our website at www.postsecondary transition.com for both of these lists for our certificate track friends and for our diploma bound friends. If you go to the website on the home page at the very top, you will see links to buttons for home, what's in an IEP, and where we found these lists is in our where to start button. So if you just hover over that, it's going to give you a secondary menu. You'll see our start here. We have certificate track, diploma track, and it even includes transition tools or tools that you will use along that journey. So again, go to the website, check it out. This can be super useful. All right, Miss Megan. I think that we can sign this one off.

Speaker 2 1:33:37

Awesome. Thanks for joining everyone. Our discussions are everywhere. Apple, Spotify, YouTube Music, and others. So hit the follow button and you won't miss out. Please help us spread the word about our discussions by leaving us a review. Links to the information from our conversations are always in our show notes. Surf to our sister website, www.postsecondary transition.com. Full of information and links to more resources. Our YouTube channel contains curated videos that revolve around transition, including playlists for guardianship, alternatives to guardianship, able accounts, and more to come. Thanks so much for your time spent with us, and we look forward to talking again soon.