Intro

Patrick Cadigan 0:00

Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition Conversation. We focus on the ins and outs and everything in between of the transition process for families of students with disabilities. I am one of the hosts. My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am a public school transition coordinator. As always, I have a co-host and who would that be?

Up next

Meghan Smallwood 0:18

I am Megan Smallwood, and I am also a public school transition coordinator.

Liz Burley- Intro & Background

Patrick Cadigan 0:22

So for today's conversation, we had a chance to sit down with Liz Burley, a transition coordinator with 40 years of experience. Now, she worked in neighboring Prince George's County, but Liz's resume is too long to recite. But she worked as a transition coordinator. She was a member of the Council of Exceptional Children, actively participates in the ARC of PG County, including 101 style discussions about transition, which consequently is how we found her. Without further ado.

Meghan Smallwood 0:57

All right. So today we are fortunate enough to have Liz Burley with us. Thank you for joining us, Liz.

Liz Burley 1:03

Thank you for having me.

Meghan Smallwood 1:05

And Liz has a lot of background with transition, specifically with Prince George's County. So I guess we'll just drive dive right into it if you don't mind just telling us a little bit about your background.

Liz Burley 1:16

Well, I'm a native New Yorker and I came down here to go to the University of Maryland. So I'm a TIP forever. Started out actually in pre-med before I decided that, okay, me and organic chemistry did not get along. Oh, wow. What a switch. I decided to go into the passion that I've always had, which was special education. I come from a family of educators. I had worked in my church organization too, where we had a Sunday school for special needs. So that had always been a passion of mine. So I got my degree in special ed, had done student teaching here in Prince George's County in both elementary and in special ed. And of course, special ed was where my heart was. I started teaching at a special education center, which was the old Princess Garden Special Center, where students came. My classroom actually was students based on that came out of the state institution at Great Oak Center. And I always had the secondary students, so I always loved my older kids. So it became, I got so involved with the kids and doing some simple things that the attention that they did not get at the institution. So on Fridays we installed like our grooming day, where we did hand was nail polishing and shampooing hair and curling hair and doing all sorts of nice grooming things. And then we had a dance in the afternoon and everybody kind of loved it. You know, the boys were involved, the girls were involved. I had boys blow-drying girls' hair, all sorts of things that the kids just relished. It became so impassioned that I used to go out and visit at Great Oak Center. So I knew my way around that quite a bit, even involved my son, who was very small at the time, I'd say probably three years old. You know, so he'd start racing wheelchairs around the cottages that they had out there. So he became very involved as well. I stayed at Princess Garden. We moved into the Margaret Brent building. So my special center career was about five years. I then went over to a high school where I worked with diploma-bound students, and they were in self-contained classes at the time and did academics. So it was a big change for me during that career time, but I saw the potential in so many of these young people. And I actually have contact with a lot of those same students today. They have several on speed dial. Someone has a tow truck company. You know, I knew who my people are to go to. And so they've become very close to me. The bond was right there from the beginning because kids know which teachers kind of care about them. And pick up that sense with them. So I had kids that had never academically done anything, young men that couldn't read. And then by the time he graduated, he actually had made on a role for the first time. And his mother was just so thrilled and delighted. And he was. And even though he learned how to accommodate himself, you know, with the use of technology and texting and things where, you know, the predictors of words would come up, that was a big thing. So I stayed in the high school years for about half of my career, and then I would went into central office. So I became a resourced teacher for other teachers. So I'd go into other buildings and help other schools set up certain things and certain programs. In 2007, we implemented a transition coordinated, a specialist position, which was a 12-month administrative position, which I held. And just because we were fighting a little bit more to get more transition services to our students and putting the emphasis on transition that the state had put in place. Early on in my career, I actually became also a foster parent for some young adults that had been at Great Oaks Center. So they were at one of the centers and graduated in both 88 and 89. And at the time with the state going into any of the adult service programs, there was a seven-year waiting list for anybody to get into some of the adult programs. So the waiting list was very high, and the budget was not there to fund a lot of these programs. As being a foster parent, I could see the different challenges with the adult services as well as families, and I saw how desperate families were to get their young people into these adult programs. Thankfully, with a lot of advocacy, I think, from parents, because parents are the key to everything. They put in place the Governor's Transition and Youth Initiative, and that guaranteed that the students leaving school had guaranteed spots that first year they left school. So if they accessed services during that first year of leaving school that needed day programs from the long-term services, they could access that within that first year. And that became really critical to many families. So that's why transition became so important for families to understand if the needed a program for the young person that needed services during that time, that they could needed to make sure that their applications were in and they followed through during that first year. Otherwise, they got put back at the bottom of the waiting list, you know, which could be several years long. You know, and that that became, you know, my mantra to making sure parents understood that this was a long-term process. Because many of our students have a lot of skills, because if they're not that strong academically, doesn't mean that they're not great employees and that they don't have great work skills, or that they're not college material, because some of our students were very much so college material. They just had to find their niche. So being able to get a student to figure out what they love to do and trying to make that a career, you know, and understanding, do I like working with my hands? Do I want to do something sitting down? Do I can I sit down in an office job? But if I'm ADHD, a sitting in an office job may not be the best thing for me. Understanding that and trying to get the parents to understand that. Even my mother sometimes used to say, well, what about a good government job? And I have a son that went into the Air Force, and he's not one that likes to sit in an office. So those good government jobs where you're sitting in an office is not something that he would particularly like. So it's about getting students and families to understand. Everybody has to find in what is going to be meaningful to them. Those are the biggest keys, I think, for any student going to school. And it's okay if you change your mind. It's something that you want to do, but then go back and say, okay, what is it that I really like to do? Okay, because if you if you do some trial and different job shadowing or following somebody else or talking to somebody else about their job, when you eliminate jobs that you know you don't want to do is just as important as finding out the right one for you. Those are keys. You know, and I used to tell my students all the time, it didn't matter whether you were worked with the trash trucks, because those guys make really good money. So if you could handle the smell and the heavy lifting and being out in all kinds of weather, great. And then work your way up and start owning the business, doing those types of things. So that's where trying to get the kids to understand their passion and understanding what they're really good at doing. So those were some of the things that I have done over the over the years with my students.

Working with students

Transitioning youth

Eligibility instead of entitlement

Speaker 3 9:06

We used to do a career expo each year, and we'd bring all the schools together and would usually did it at the community college. And the kids would go to different seminars, almost like do things about self-advocacy. They do dress for success. You know, what do I wear for that interview? How do I? We had our speech pathologists come in and actually do mock interviews with the students that were so eye-opening, both the speech pathologists as well as for the students. And the students walked away with an evaluation of their interview and what they needed to work on. You know, so those things we had guest speakers come in, and each student, each school kind of nominated their outstanding student for an award. And those became really important for our students. They look forward to it. We made the kids dress up, you know, like you're going for an interview. So, you know, here's your chance to be up on the community college campus and see how things are, interact with different people. A lot of companies or were there to hire, colleges were there, so different places were there for our diploma-bound students as well. Our transitional youth fairs for our certificate students became important. We had more and more agencies participating. They put together a provider council so that all the adult agencies worked together in all aspects of what they were looking for. It even we even got put into place a unified application for the adult agencies so that every agency didn't have a different application that parents had to fill out, which was great because you filled out one application for several participating agencies and they could just Xerox it, you know, and then use it for any of the agencies that were there instead of trying to complete all these different applications. And those are the things that I think are really key in getting parents to understand how important it is and their role in in all of this. For our transitioning youth going into the adult agencies, those are lifelong programs that the students can get into. Once they apply for the Developmental Disability Administration with DDA, that's a lifelong thing. They don't have to keep reapplying. So those are the key things because I always want our parents to push our young people to be as independent as possible. You know, no matter what it is, whether you're doing hand over hand where you're lifting the cup over to the sink, or each kid is pulling the trash from each room in your house and doing some of those things to contribute. Whatever every young person can do, they need to do, to be a part of that because they want to feel important and they want to feel a part of the family unit as well. And that helps them to do that. If we do everything for our young people, they'll never be independent. Even for our non-disabled children, I know colleges used to call the parents the helicopter parents age. This is a generation of helicopter parents because the parents are calling the colleges and want to talk to the professors and, you know, give the kids excuses of why they weren't there or, you know, they had a paper, they need extra time. Getting to know the differences between what you're entitled to during those school years and your school age years for public school as compared to what you have to become eligible for when you go to college. You're not going to be accepted at every college you apply to because everybody has their own criteria. And that's the same also with adult agencies. Every agency has their criteria of clients that they are looking for and the services that they provide. And every agency may provide different services. So it's about them understanding and looking and searching for the right agency that's going to match their young adults' needs and their needs. Do they provide transportation? Will they need to use metro access? How will they get there? So those are some of the important things that all parents really need to focus on.

Speaker 2 13:13

I think it goes back to that advocacy piece too. I know it's so hard. I think we see with parents, there they always have somebody in the school system to lean on and to help them through. And then at 21, you know, for those who are going out into adult agencies, it's like a cliff, just falling off the cliff.

Speaker 3 13:31

It is. It is. And that's why sometimes we really have to, you know, wean our parents from doing everything for them and trying to make sure that they're really pushing it. I mean, in school, we could sit there and complete applications, but does a guidance council complete college applications for students? Right. No. It's a student and a parent responsibility to know what colleges they want to apply to, what financial aid they would need to do, filling out a financial aid application. You know, so I try to make sure parents understand that this is the same comparison. You know, because you had an IEP doesn't mean that we are doing everything for you. It's still your responsibility to see that some of these things get done. We can guide you and lead you along the way, but parents have to understand that the power that they have. None of these programs would be put in place without the parents. It's parents that push to get students into public schools, have disabilities.

Speaker 2 14:28

Parents got the laws changed. And I remember I had one parent tell me once that he he's going to be the constant in his son's life. So he has to know everything that's going on, and he has to know who the coordinator is for this agency and who the person is for that. And it can be frustrating when, you know, you feel like it's working in silos, but unfortunately, that they have to know it all.

Keep a notebook

Speaker 3 14:50

Absolutely. You know, and it's hard and it's a different role. And you know, parents feel, you know, they're trying to push their other kids out of the house to be as independent that they're not going to have to shatter them. But some of them some of them come back home too without IEPs. Yep. Sometimes we have to still guide them as well. But yes, you are the constant. You are the most important part of your your child's life. They do need you as the advocate to continue on with all of that fighting that you're going to need to do. That's why I tell parents, you know, keep a notebook of all the people you talk to. Anytime you call an agency or you're talking to somebody, get a name. A log. You know, I talked to SSI this day. I talked to DDA this day. Who did I speak to? Who is the person so you can refer back to that person? Well, Mrs. Jones told me this. Now, Mrs. Smith, you're telling me this? Which is it? Somebody correct me here. So why am I getting two different answers from the same agency? So it's about knowing that and being able to get to do that. And it becomes a second job.

Speaker 2 16:00

Yeah, that's the worst. I think that's the worst fear or the overwhelming fear. You know, it's it's I already have a job. Now I've got to worry about all this.

Be ok to make changes

Social media can help

Speaker 3 16:08

It's also important for parents then to surround themselves with support groups. Yes. You know, because parents learn the most from other parents. What worked for you, what didn't work for you. It's it's sad because, you know, I lived through the time and taught through the time where parents were desperate for help. You know, where they needed this, their young adult to leave the leave the house and they needed to get them into some residential services. Because the waiting list was so long they couldn't. So what they did is they got respite care and then refused to pick up the young adult from respite care. And it was heartbreaking at both sides. But the parents were that desperate that they decided that that was gonna be their best move because then the young adult was in crisis and they had to place them. So I don't want to see families have to go through that. I want them to be able to follow through to see what they want for their child. Is everything gonna work out perfectly? No, it's not. Are you gonna have to make some changes sometimes? Yeah, you will. Okay, whether it's changing an agency, changing a residential care program, whatever it is, you're gonna have to make some changes sometimes. Just like we make changes in our lives. We may change jobs or change locations or move our homes. You know, we all make changes, and sometimes you have to do that for our young adults. You know, but getting parents to understand that, okay, when you retire, you may not move to Florida and still get the same services. These services are here for the state of Maryland. So if you go down to Rehoboth Beach and you want to live there, fine, but you've had to have an apartment on Maryland side so that you have a residency in Maryland for your young adult to get their services. It's important to understand those ins and outs of a lot of that legality where those services are. Here, I know we're very lucky because we do have a group of services here. Counties may not have as many, no matter how active you are. But I always say get with a support group. You know, the Ark of Maryland is wonderful. Each county has an ARC. More so they're a very large advocacy group that fight for our young adults and people with disabilities. They have, you know, legislation. So those some key points that the parents really do need to become active and understand all of those ins and outs of the legal system as well.

Speaker 2 18:31

I think social media has really helped with that too, that the they're able to find the other parents out there to connect with. And I know some providers are even popped up in that way because of parents have gotten together and said, this we want something different. And they've worked to create it.

Speaker 18:48

We belong to a couple of different Facebook groups that where the parents are advocating for each other, talking through challenges that they're having. And that has been there's no shortage of discussion and need for a sharing of information.

Know your information

Speaker 3 19:06

And that's even when your child is younger on the IP and and understanding the IP, because I mean it's long and drawn out. That's why we used to hate printing them out, right? 40 pages or so of all the stuff, but knowing what the key points are. What are the most important parts? Where do you want to see your child? What's most important? Scary part is too is the parents understanding what the needs are. You know, what an agency is is looking for in that transition piece. I was in a meeting with a family, and the the mother was so worried about toilet training. You know, my child needs to be toilet trained. They won't get into an adult program if they're not toilet trained. I said, well, who told you that? You know, that is not a criteria for many adult programs. I said, we have many people that are not toilet trained. Well, they have to be able to write their name. No, they don't have to be able to write their name. We have many very involved children that do not have use of their hands and mobility to do that. You know, but that doesn't mean that they can't get into a program. So it's about knowing where your child is. Yes, is toy toilet training important? It is, if if it can be achieved. It may not be able to be achieved by everybody. So knowing what are what are the supports that you're going to use for that.

Speaker 2 20:26

And what kind of steps can you take to get to the most independent level that they can achieve for toilet training? So if they can stand for a change instead of lay down, that's perfect.

So many changes

Speaker 3 20:35

But or if they can signal you somehow to know that they need to be changed. So whatever it is, how are they communicating? And I think it's also very, very important for parents to be able to share the knowledge of their young adult with other people. How is somebody else going to know my child? We as parents sometimes think we are the end all and be all to our kids. There's nobody that's going to be a better parent than we are. And it's nice to think that. You know, we we all want to pat ourselves on the back saying, Yeah, I did a hell of a job raising my kids, you know, or you know, I'm the only one that can take care of his needs. You know, but we have to understand that we're not always gonna be there. And what happens when we're not there? How do we make our young adult be as independent as possible if we're not there? Who's gonna take over my role? You know, because if we think we're the end all and be all to everything for our kid, then we're being pretty selfish for ourselves because then we're not giving our kid an expansive support system. You know, and that is what is crucial is about five, it's not knowing everything, it's about knowing where to go to look for the information.

Speaker 21:51

We recently had a discussion with another former transition coordinator, Betsy, and one of the things that she impressed upon me as I was listening. to her talking was that the the the discussion of transition is it is a process and so because it is a process like timelines can look very different and you have to take in the the needs of the of the student of the child of the parent what the agencies are doing and looking for and you know things like that but it is a process so as I'm hearing you talk I'm thinking about that's just reinforcing that idea that in that process changes will need to be made and you know you're gonna have to be able to adapt and that that in and of itself that adaptation can be a big a big deal and transition is changing all the time all the time you know regulations are changing all the time we used to have a lot of the day programs where the kids did piecework the kids aren't doing piecework anymore what are they doing now they're going out in the community what can they do what are their likes what do they like to do everything is changing all the time so we have to be ready for that change and it takes time it's not easy it's not easy for parents when their kids go off to college and I've had parents even you know in our programs some parents are thinking that graduation is the most exciting day of their lives and then others say it's the saddest day because they're leaving that world that they know that supports their child and they know a lot of them know many of the teachers and staff for years and years because they've been with them all these years.

Pushing forward

Speaker 3 23:38

You know so now they're going out into the world of the unknown and that and that's scary for the adults as well.

Speaker 23:44

Over the course of your career what do you think of as the biggest change in transition like the the biggest like positive change in transition are working is the one of the biggest changes I've seen from our students you know that graduated with certificates they're non-diploma students but you see more and more of them working courtesy clerks they're working in different places the community is opening the doors to more people with disabilities.

Needed changes

Speaker 3 24:19

So the awareness I think has grown so much over the years that it's much more acceptable. People aren't as stigmatized as they used to be you know you're still going to find some that are the doors have opened more you know you see more people with disabilities on television and in movies you know so they know what the capabilities are. I think those are some of the biggest changes that I've seen years ago it was you had a child with a significant disability and the doctor said put them in an institution you know and now we don't have those institutions anymore. So that that's another big change because at the time people don't know and even doctors don't know at all. Even as many of them that I've worked with over the years that have come to graduate I said many of you sit here at graduation and a lot of you the doctors have told you your child wouldn't live past the age of five and here they are now 21 graduating their program I said so everybody doesn't know all the answers all the time you know so you have to go with that and you just have to keep pushing forward.

Speaker 25:30

So along those lines then where do you see change still needing to happen? Like what what would you like to see moving forward?

Speaker 3 25:40

I know there's much more integration going on as far as the programs being put in public schools here in I know in Prince Jordus County, what we used to call our old special education centers being eliminated and they're putting the classes in the new buildings that are being built and and integrating them into the regular high school, middle schools and elementary schools so that everybody is aware I think when kids grow up with kids with disabilities in their classrooms, they learn okay it's it's just as much of a learning process for our gentle ed kids as it is for our special needs kids. Those gentle ed kids grow up to become our providers, our teachers, and sometimes even parents. So it's about them knowing and then as a young age building that compassion and when you're exposed to it at a young age like everything else it becomes natural as you get older that you're more open to hiring somebody with a disability more open to working with somebody with a disability you know so you become much more compassionate of anybody working with somebody with a disability.

Speaker 2 26:54

So those things I think are are critical that we see more and more of I know you'd mentioned before about the trial and error learning what their strengths are, what they like to do what they didn't like to do. Is there a work program where the students actually go out in the community during the day in Prince George's County Yes.

Speaker 3 27:12

And I know COVID has thrown a lot of those things around but uh yeah and in the in the high school programs that we try to get them out four days a week into different you know vocational type programs where they're experiencing different things and working in different positions, whether it be in retail and you know hanging clothes at Marshall's or sorting clothes but those are some types of things that they do, whether it's with food service in any of the cafeterias, whether it's it's cleaning in in different areas around some of those jobs that they can do some of them get jobs that come into the building where they're doing some assembly type work. You know, so those are some things and working on those behavioral skills you know are really critical that make our kids socially acceptable out in the community learning how to shake hands and some of my parents that have heard me talk for a while always say one of my favorite lines is what's cute at five is not cute at 15. It's cute when the little five year old comes running up and hugging you when that now five year old is now six foot five and they come running up trying to hug you, it scares people to death because now this a grown person, this is an adult, you know, so you you have to understand the differences in the social what is socially acceptable. You know so getting the kids to practice that handshaking and and the greetings that they can, you know, or fist bumps or whatever it is that make it acceptable with with their peers. And it's going to be new for for everybody. I know at the high school when we first had our certificate students come into the high school you know there were some some issues where the kids went running out to their buses and different gates and everything and there was a group of kids in the cafeteria that started laughing. One kid got up on the table and yelled at everybody said who the heck do you think you are yelling at them that could be your brother your sister your aunt your uncle your niece or your nephew don't be laughing at them. After that you could have heard a pin drop they said in the cafeteria and the kids then start accepting them into the cafeteria at lunchtime and sitting at the tables with them and getting to know them. So it was an opening by one person that got them the rest of the kids accepted. So it only takes one out of a large group that makes it unacceptable the bad behavior and gets the acceptable behavior to be customized to everybody. It became an integration thing in the cafeteria then where the kids went in to eat their lunch with everybody else. They didn't have to sit in a separate corner you know or a separate table. They were eating with their classmates with everybody else. It only takes that one and that one has to be somebody even in the family.

Speaker 30:10

I think it's interesting because I even in discussions with my teacher friends sometimes we when we're having those discussions we talk about that it's easier for the kids to accept students with disabilities into the classroom than even some of the adults which I think is pretty amazing.

Speaker 3 30:28

Well the younger kids have a much more open mind at the time I think we as adults get set in our ways. It's like it's like the teacher that wants to do the same lesson over and over again. They have to do it the same way each time they do it. It's the same worksheets it's the same this same discussions so it's about breaking out even with our own habits you know as we get in we get set in our ways. So older people are set in their ways and they're kind of ugh and they still have some of the old stigmatisms are they contagious you know what's going to happen are they going to hurt somebody so it's the fear of the unknown because you have to give you giving yourself a chance to know them. I think our our young adults our gel ed young adults learn as much from the student with a disability as the kid with the disability can learn from the Gen ed student because that that Gen ed student is learning some compassion. They're learning how to help somebody else they're learning how to defend somebody in a positive way and speaking up in their learning to advocate for this other young adult. You know so I think that is just as important of a lesson as anything you could teach.

Speaker 31:45

As we're having the conversation of course we're talking about certificate track students who will not graduate with a high school diploma and then we have our diploma students. Did you have a preference in terms of the students that you worked with like one of the things that Megan and I have discussed is that obviously a lot of the information that we push out there is for our non-diploma bound students.

Speaker 3 32:08

Because there's lots and lots of information out there for the diploma bound students as well so did you did you have a preference in terms of who you like to work with I didn't I used to go back and forth between the two so much you know because I had my non-diploma students also here in my house you know so dealing with that 24-7 as well as my other son my my son that went into the Air Force I said so you know I was dealing with both ends even in within my own home. I didn't I guess it's sometimes those kids that are on in the middle of the road it's it's the kids that that are not quite a certificate based students but are in that we call them tweeners. Tweeners those are the kids sometimes that get really stuck they're too high to get long-term services yet they're not as independent as they need to be to be out there on their own full time so it's about getting them to know where the resources are for them and following through. So if they get involved with the Division of Rehab Services and they get some job training and they get some support to do what they want to do, I think that becomes critical. Knowing that they could go to Workforce Technology Center in Baltimore and get automotive training or get office computer skills training any of those things would be critical to know what they want to do. Knowing that they could get their driver's license, you know, and that they have driving programs for them those are some things that are critical. So getting them to understand the different programs that are out there and available is really important for that group of young people because they become very successful. A lot of them then wind up starting their own business or they have family members that help them start their own business or they take over and work in their family businesses. So all those things become very critical for them.

Speaker 2 34:03

Again it's helping them find their niche and what they want to do and also I think the parents continuing that advocacy piece.

Speaker 3 34:10

Absolutely and sometimes those those are also the kids where the parents kind of pull back a little bit more they really become on their own. I've had students that have you know when we we did some job training they got placed in in in a work study program with with the government and some of them kept those jobs for 30 years. They were able to work in some of the entry level positions within the government and then work their way up to higher levels. It's about knowing what the niche is where the where the opportunities are for them.

Speaker 2 34:44

Yeah and that's one thing another parent that we interviewed Pam Paris she shared you know when she she took her son to the job fair for the schools and she said look he will be your best employee he will show up every day he is here for 30 years and he will do what he's told he wants to teach him.

Speaker 3 35:03

So you'd be silly not to hire him and that's with a lot of I mean I see the courtesy clerk at my my safe way store has been there for years and years. You never see them not happy they're happy with everything that they're doing we as as non-disabled people have to really sometimes sink into ourselves you know why am I in such a grouchy mood? All right and then you could be going into the store and then this kid brightens brightens up your day by just saying hey how are you? Mm-hmm, glad to see you because they're always happy they're always happy with the job that they're doing they know there's never anything that they don't like to do. You know so those are some key points you know for our our young people and for people in general it doesn't matter the job you're doing if you like doing it. One of my other young men was a diploma bound student almost did not graduate every year in in for summer the summer youth employment program wanted to work as a custodian in the school buildings. So he had an opportunity every year to work in a school building through the summer youth employment program. When he got out of school he got a part-time night job as a school custodian okay after 25 years the young man now is the supervisor of one of the highest largest high schools in the county and is training other people you know so as a family has bought a home has you know contributed to society and has raised his family here. If you love what you're doing he took over a high school building that I'd never seen that was one of our older buildings and after he was done with it after the first year I I couldn't get over the difference in the building the principal was just amazed the difference in the building because he took such pride in his work. But the other thing he learned is that that I learned from other people is the way he treated his staff. You know he learned how to treat his staff with respect, you know, and got everybody working as a team player. So you know it it also turned out how wonderful his character was and that he learned through the years how he wanted to be treated and that's how he treated his support staff. He's one of my big success stories that I always talk about and he's done wonderful you know so you take pride in those those stories of the kids you've worked with keep coming back to become party family.

Sometimes a disconnect

Speaker 2 37:41

So I think sometimes we face the struggle where there's a disconnect too between what the the child or the young adult is telling us they're interested in and what the family's expectations are for them.

Speaker 3 37:54

Absolutely and that's hard as the school you know staff to to try and be that middleman to to make them see you know well this is really what would make them happy because we have these expectations of where we want our kids to be and I always try to look at it as the point just that I said okay you want him to sit in an office but you know he can't sit still is that going to be a good match for them right now sometimes we is it we're afraid sometimes to have those honest conversations with parents to say, well have you really looked at this really going to be a good match for him? You know what does he really like to do? I'm not lowering my expectations because as an educator and a teacher in my building anytime I changed offices the first person I got to know was the school secretary and the head custodian.

Speaker 4 38:47

Yep.

Out of the box

What about tomorrow

What does a day look like

Speaker 3 38:47

I knew those are the two people that could get me whatever I needed. You know so those are the important people in your building and those are the first people everybody goes to for cleaning up for other things. And people have to change their mindset that that that job is beneath them. I tell people all the time the school custodian makes more than the teachers do. You know so think about some of those things as far as what they want to do just like the trash man. If you like doing it hey then you're happy with what you're doing another young man that had autism could not read he wanted a job like his father and and wear a short and tie to work every day. You know he could not read limited academic areas the job he got they wound up getting him he has one of the highest security clearances now because he works at NSA and he works in the shredding room and he's has autism so he loves the humming of the shredding machine and he can't read any of the confidential documents so he's not a security risk. Yet he goes into the gate with his white shirt and tie on every day like his dad and he goes in and works in the in the shredding room that's a great story I like that. Yeah you know so there was a niche for everybody. Other people would go crazy with that humming noise. I can't even stand an air conditioner that it you know when the window units it could hear the buzzing of the air conditioner. I couldn't stand that I'd rather sleep than hear that humming of that noise. You know yet this young man that humming noise was soothing to him. Therefore he excelled at what he did I've also dealt with parents that have told me to mind my own business it doesn't matter what I do with my young adult if I want them to sit home with me I'm gonna take care of them. I don't need any adult agencies that's a disservice to your children would you allow your non child to do that they don't want to be with you all the time I don't care if they're nonverbal they want to be with their peers okay so don't think that this is so wonderful. That's not wonderful for the child. And you know I also what is that young adult going to do if you're not here tomorrow? I was going to say what happens when you're gone you know and I've dealt with a lot of those emergency situations. I was the the the phone call that people made you know where somebody calls into special ed or the school board and they say okay dealing with my 35 year old nephew and everybody around him has passed away and he's never had any services. So then you're trying to look at well where are we going to find documents to prove he had a disability prior to age 22? Where are we going to get him on a waiting list? Who has any files on this young person? Where'd he go to a doctor? Now I've dealt with families like that where things have happened and they've kept this young adult at home well is now 35 years old so he's not that young but he was wheelchair bound somebody had to lift him in and out of the tub and everything else and do these things for him and it became a hardship. And families like to think that siblings or other family members are going to step in and care for your child and that's not always the way we'd like to think somebody's gonna step in we want to think brothers or sisters might take them in and they may tell you that while you're here but the minute you know you're gone it's not going to happen. And I've dealt with that in in my own life with a with a girlfriend that did MS she was at home became very involved was was bedbound and the parents took care of him and then both parents died within a year of each other parents died the siblings put her in a nursing home it happens all the time and it's it's our responsibility as a parent our responsibility to make sure that we have plans for what's going to happen when we're gone parents say well he may not live that long I you know he'll he'll pass before I do well there's no guarantee you know none of us are promised tomorrow so what are you gonna do in the meantime? How are you gonna plan for this young adult? And making sure plans are in place for them. As I said, we think we're the end all be all and our kids want to be with us 247 but there's not too many of us want to be with our parents 247. They have feelings because they can't vocalize it doesn't mean that they don't know what's going on. I always tell parents too don't be careful what you're saying around your child. Just because they can't speak or you think that they they're not understanding doesn't mean that they don't understand what's going on behind their eyes. You don't know how much they're understanding. They're doing different things it doesn't mean that they're not understanding the world around them or hear what you're saying or the tone of your voice. It's important for Parents to start putting together a portfolio? What is my child's schedule like? Even if you have somebody come in to do respite care sometime. Because if a parent doesn't take care of themselves as a caregiver, they're not going to be able to take care of their child. And you need to let your child be with somebody else sometime. Even if you start out with somebody coming in while you're home too, getting to know your child. Because there's always going to be an emergency. And there's always going to be something that needs to be done. So if you have a portfolio that has their medical information, their medicine, their routine, when do they eat? What is their daily schedule like? You know, what makes them happy? What do they like to do? How do you know if they're sad? How do you know if they're in pain? You know, is the cry different? Sometimes as mothers we can distinguish the cries of our children. You know, and you can say, Oh, that's that's a hungry cry. You know, or that's a what cry. You know, or that's a pain cry. So it's about understanding and getting other people to understand. It doesn't do anybody any good to hold on to information. And I've always done this as a profession in my profession with training other teachers. It doesn't do me any good to hold on to information, I know. It's only that's only helping me. But there's so many other people out there that you have to spread the information around to everybody. Everybody needs to be aware. It's not one person's job to do just one thing. You know, so everybody needs to know the difference between the high school, the college, the transition with this, these agencies, the application process, the timelines. As many people as possible need to know that. You know, just be a transition coordinating the school, they're the only person that holds on to that information. Every teacher dealing with that child should understand that information. But parents, especially as an adult, if they're going in, you can say, This is their routine, this is what they like. And if it's in if it's in a portfolio, notebook, whatever you want, somebody else can get to know my child. Because as I've said, none of us have promised tomorrow. Anything could happen.

Speaker 46:14

I think that that's a good place to bring this conversation to an end.

Speaker 2 46:20

You have a lot of good advice, Liz. I really appreciate you hearing all that. That's because I'm old. You've seen a lot with transition for sure.

Speaker 3 46:30

Yeah, but over the years, you've seen the changes over the years.

Speaker 46:34

Well, we can't thank you enough for taking your time to come out and talk with us, and we really do appreciate it.

Well That's Helpful

Speaker 2 46:40

Yes, thank you very much. You brought up so many important things that I want parents to hear over and over again because I think it'll really need to resonate with them. That was wonderful.

Speaker 47:00

That was that was shit.

Speaker 2 47:02

This is just so chock full of information.

Speaker 47:04

Yeah. Yeah, it was a good conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Outro

Speaker 2 47:07

Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully you all did too. So before we let you go, we wanted to share out our well, that's helpful segment with a new resource. And this week we're highlighting Disability Rights Maryland, which many of you may have heard of. Disability Rights Maryland, or DRM, is a nonprofit organization which is formally known as Maryland Disability Law Center. The Disability Rights Maryland is federally mandated and it advances the civil rights of people with disabilities. They're providing free legal services to Marylanders of any age with all types of disabilities, including developmental, intellectual, psychiatric, physical, sensory, learning, traumatic brain injury, anyone who lives in a facility in the community, or who are homeless. They assist with an advocacy for a number of areas. And just to name a few, they will help with education, any nursing facilities if you have an issue with that, assistive technology, civil rights and voting rights, Medicaid issues, advocacy for Social Security beneficiaries, which I know many families have access to them for that support, and public policy. They are a huge advocate for public policy, and I've known some of the things that they've fought for over the last couple of years, and they're just fantastic. Any Maryland resident with a disability and a legal issue within their scope of advocacy service plan, which is further outlined on their website, can contact the intake office to see if they're able to assist them. You can find out more information about the process, along with details about their programs and services at www.disabilityrightsmd.org. And I just want to add that they've been a wonderful resource for our county in particular in the past by providing informational workshops for our families on guardianship and the alternatives to guardianship, which I know many of our families have accessed and really appreciated. They also provide live Q ⁇ A sessions on their Facebook page throughout the school year to help parents and families understand the right to education services for children with disabilities. So be sure to look for them there as well. Apple, Spotify, YouTube Music, and others. So hit the follow button and you won't miss out. Please help us spread the word about our discussions by leaving us a review. Links to the information from our conversations are always in our show notes. Surf to our sister website, www.postsecondarytransition.com. Full of information and links to more resources. Our YouTube channel contains curated videos that revolve around transition, including playlists for guardianship, alternatives to guardianship, able accounts, and more to come. Thanks so much for your time spent with us, and we look forward to talking again soon.