Patrick Cadigan: 0:00

It just seems Meghan, like we keep coming back, we keep hitting the record button, and we keep talking. So I guess that's where we are.

Meghan Smallwood: 0:08

It feels like we were just here.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:11

Yeah, Gee. I wonder where that came from. Hello. I am Patrick Cadigan. I am a public school special education teacher. Who is my co host?

Meghan Smallwood: 0:19

I am Meghan Smallwood, and I'm a public school transition coordinator, and we are here for Post Secondary Transition. Over the last few conversations, we talked about how we decided we were going to do some 101 style conversations to essentially introduce parents to the world of secondary transition, and, more specifically, Post Secondary Transition. So we're continuing our way up that ladder, and now we're going to cover the big one; DDA.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:46

Yeah, the big one,

Meghan Smallwood: 0:48

The big one.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:49

Why don't we start with what is DDA?

Meghan Smallwood: 0:52

Yeah. So DDA is basically that primary state agency that funds life after 21 that long term funding not to say there aren't different avenues prior to 21 but the big concern I think most of us have at this point is after 21 and that could include, like, a meaningful day, whether it's employment, volunteering or community exploration, It's very individualized whatever is the best fit for your young adult. It could also include residential and personal supports, but we will definitely get more into that those details as we go along. All right, so, and I know that this has come up more than once, but it's always good to do you know, ask some of the same questions again and again, just as a reminder for parents to hear know what's coming up. When should a DDA application first be completed? So we advise to be completed at age 14, which is when those transition pages first begin appearing on the IEP in our county. But you can complete it even before then. And I know many parents who have used other resources or providers you know, especially when a child is first diagnosed, especially with autism, many of the people that they come into their lives to help them will suggest completing a DDA application. Just get it off your plate and taken care of. So there's no harm in doing it prior, but definitely by 14, and the application can be found on DDA website. Or if you were in high school, you can ask your transition specialist for a copy. And even if you're not in high school, if your young adult is in middle school, you can still ask the case manager, and they can always get in touch with coordinating Transition Specialists for the high schools in the area. Some details in completing the application, you need to make sure to include certain documentation with that application. The application does not take long. It's just couple pages, basically asking straight forward information, what the disability is, how much help they need, what other agencies you may have been receiving help from already, but the advice straight from DDA has been to send those applications and documentation electronically. Man, if I remember correctly, that was something that you had recommended out before, simply because some of those applications, they can get lost, right? Yes, absolutely. And that happened a lot during the pandemic. I had families who completed it, mailed in hard copies, and once you know, life somewhat resumed to normal operations. DDA did not have any record of it, so it was like starting over. So definitely send it electronically with that documentation, like I mentioned. And when I say documentation, I'm talking psychological assessments, any medical records that really explain the severity of a disability, the IEP, a behavior plan, educational assessment, and if you have any questions, or if you need copies, you can definitely ask your transition specialist for help with that, but definitely send that along with the application. Well, and I know that it's come up before. One of the things that I feel like was mentioned when we discussed timelines was that, like with the evaluations, that while you're collecting it, while you're making this binder, this, this home folder, that documentation should be within three years, and I remember it specifically in terms of, like, psychological but it does that also apply to like the like, the healthcare information as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I think when they actually do the assessment or talk a little more. And I know with other different resources too, like I'm thinking SSI, they want to know within the last three years of any hospitalizations, major surgeries, things like that, just to document how recent any medical concerns have been. So I will say. And if we don't have it already, maybe we can include the email address for the central region as to where to send the applications for DDA.

Patrick Cadigan: 5:10

I am not 100% sure that that is on the site. By the time we're done with this conversation, it will be. And the other thing is, if I remember correctly, because I know that sometimes navigating the DDA site itself can be a little daunting. We also have a copy of the application on our what is DDA page, so you can just travel there, and it's very straightforward. There's not a lot of stuff there. So, and then as far as the email address, yeah, I'm gonna throw that in there, too.

Meghan Smallwood: 5:42

Awesome. And that is specifically for our central region, which our county is included. If you need to know of other counties and what region they fall into, that can be found on the actually, on the app, the application, the last page of the DDA application. And I will say we also have the DDA application, or DDA has it in Spanish as well. I think that that's that is up on our side as well. So good stuff. We are so helpful. Look at that. Look at us saving the world one document at a time. So after you complete that application and send it along, I advise parents to write the date on the top of your application or on a sticky along with what documentation you sent with the application, just to have it on hand, because I know previously, I've had parents send it, and I would put a copy in the transition file at school, and we would not hear anything from DDA, and I would go and check with the eligibility specialist, who would say, we don't have any application on file for that student. And I remember one scenario where I was actually able to go back and see, oh no, this application for you know, John Smith was sent on March 12 with this documentation, and lo and behold, an email came back. Oh yes, we've found that application. As we all know, it's not a perfect system. Keep records and don't be afraid to be the squeaky wheel. Since the pandemic, I think we the transition specialist parents. We've all seen that needs to happen, and you need to be your biggest, the biggest advocate for your child. And then so once the application has been submitted, what's the next step in the process? Like, how? Like, essentially, how would What's the guarantee that the families would find out that their that their application was received? So once the application's been submitted, usually within a couple weeks, you should get a letter, typically a letter from DDA. So just be mindful of your mail, because a lot of times the DDA will come back and say, Oh no, we sent a letter we never heard from the family. And I should say, Be Found mindful of that timeline, because DDA said we sent it and parents haven't gotten and I find that kind of odd. You can always ask your transition specialist to help, help reach out, figure out who to go to if they haven't heard anything. Is that letter or the packet that they receive?

Patrick Cadigan: 8:06

Is that specific to the families, or is that something that is it like gives you general information?

Meghan Smallwood: 8:12

I am glad you said that, because it is a very generic letter. Whether it is to set up, I'm ahead of myself, the generic letter will be sent after they make a determination, and that can be very confusing, but ahead of that, you will get a letter saying that they want to complete a comprehensive assessment with you and your young adult, and that is when you will actually have a coordinator come to your house, and it's a random coordinator just assigned to the case, and they have to meet your young adult and meet with you, and just make sure everything that they read about them on paper fits what they are seeing and hearing, and just to clarify how much need really is necessary for this young adult, especially, you know, as they get older, and I know thinking about, like the IEP process, we like to come forward and, you know, review all of the strengths and progress that our child has made during the year with DDA. It's the opposite. You really want to think about your child on one of their hardest days and let them know just how much help they would need to get by and how much help you would need to get by. They need to know the most amount of support that would help this person have a meaningful life after 21.

Patrick Cadigan: 9:26

And I know that this has come up before the DDA is typically funding for after 21. My thoughts go to, is there anything that will help parents like right now?

Meghan Smallwood: 9:37

Yeah, so, and I've encountered this a lot, especially since the pandemic. You know, it's been hard on a lot of families, and help is needed. It's all great to fill out an application for DDA, but then to hear that it's not really until after 21 it's kind of disheartening. So like I said before, there are circumstances prior to 21 that funding could be available, and from DDA side. There is the family supports waiver, which could be for children and the families, but it requires certain statuses, which would be either crisis resolution or crisis prevention.

Patrick Cadigan: 10:12

Oh, that...

Meghan Smallwood: 10:13

Yes.

Patrick Cadigan: 10:14

...that sounds pretty okay. So what is, how would you define crisis resolution?

Meghan Smallwood: 10:19

So DDA's eyes crisis resolution is when there is a significant crisis present and services are needed right away, because they are either experiencing a lot of physical aggression in the household, either towards others or the young adults expressing it towards themselves. They're going to be homeless. They might be a victim of abuse or neglect, or they're living with a caregiver who's not able to provide the care to them because of impaired health. So I've gone down the path with a few families about behaviors and the increase in behaviors from their young adult and you know, puberty hits, and usually does spike with many so...it's just important to be very honest and open about what you are experiencing at home, so that they know that the there really is a need for it.

Patrick Cadigan: 11:16

So that would be crisis resolution. And then how is that different from crisis prevention.

Meghan Smallwood: 11:22

So crisis prevention is that within a year, they notice that services may be needed, and it could be that they are at risk for meeting crisis resolution within the year, or even if they have a caregiver who is 65 years or older, and they recognize that it's getting harder for them to care for them. So it's just they're recognizing that the need may be there. But of course, DDA is going to see if there's any other resources or any other providers that can help, you know, take care of them prior to using DDA funding for anything.

Patrick Cadigan: 11:56

So it sounds...

Meghan Smallwood: 11:57

They will see if there's other, you know, waivers, or other avenues to go.

Patrick Cadigan: 12:02

So crisis prevention is kind of looking at things long term...

Meghan Smallwood: 12:05

Right.

Patrick Cadigan: 12:05

...whereas crisis resolution is the immediate. Current. Right. Got it? Okay?

Meghan Smallwood: 12:10

Yep.

Patrick Cadigan: 12:11

And then so we have so that and that is all under the umbrella of the family Supports Waiver. Now, if I remember correctly, I remember we it had come up for Low Intensity Support Services or LISS and what is lift funding, list funding? And what is that? So that is funding that is given through a lottery process. It's a random selection, and it's provided two times a year in the fall and the spring. And unfortunately, if you if your young adult is on the autism waiver, they are not eligible for this, but it does provide up to $2,000 each time to help any eligible children or adults with developmental or intellectual disabilities to purchase different services or items for their needs. And DDA has a lengthy list on their website that gives examples of what the funding could be used for. But just to give you some examples, I know families who have used it to pay for summer camps each year, any modifications that might be neat might need to be made to the home, an adapted bike if you want to buy an iPad for your young adult, or even if you want to make a garden in the home, if they have an interest in horticulture, it is a great possibility to get that extra money for some help. So with LISS, you had mentioned that this is a lottery, and I'm pretty sure I know what that means. But could you just give me...could you tell me what that means, just for anybody who's not sure.

Meghan Smallwood: 13:41

It's a simple little application thing. It's just like one page that you submit and your name is put in there, or your child's name is put in there and you get a letter in the mail to find out if you have been given or granted the money. You do not need to have a DDA application on file either. This is kind of separate from that, so it's something that can be accessed before 21 and it's even something that can be accessed after 21.

Patrick Cadigan: 14:06

All right, so we have the so we've talked about the family Supports Waiver, Low Intensity Support Services. Is there anything else?

Meghan Smallwood: 14:14

So if you if your young adult is applicable for medical assistance, there are waivers available through there, such as Community First Choice that can help with some of those personal supports needs in the home and if you are not eligible, or if your young adult is not eligible for medical assistance yet when they turn 18. And I know we've kind of talked about the timeline with receiving SSI and then automatically being eligible for Medicaid or medical assistance, then they would be eligible for this. So Community First Choice is a waiver through Medicaid that could provide some personal care, personal supports, and usually they're not the staff you'd be given hours, each number, each individual. Gets a certain number, and it is not typically, you know, won't be taking them in the community. It's more to help in the home with the grooming and hygiene, just to give the caregiver a little break. Community First Choice is a nice option to to kind of fit around your DDA funding after 21 so for instance, you know, and we'll get a little more into it. But with DDA, it is about a meaningful day, so meaningful day that could look like different things for different people, but let's say you have a day program as your meaningful day, but mom or dad go to work in the morning, or they're still at work in the afternoon when the day is over for the young adult, that Community First Choice could be used on either end in order to provide some assistance, you know, getting them ready to go, or getting them off the van and staying with them in the house until they get home.

Patrick Cadigan: 15:49

Got it.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:49

So it's just a matter of working the funding,

Patrick Cadigan: 15:53

Taking the next step, then. When one of the common acronyms that we always run into is the CCS or the Coordinator of Community Service. So what is the, what would be a definition of Coordinator of Community Service?

Meghan Smallwood: 16:08

Yeah and that'll kind of be bring me back up, because I don't think I finished going through the whole process after you have that assessment, that comprehensive assessment, but the the CCS is the Coordinator of Community Service, and they are kind of your middle man to DDA might. They might be your lifeline at times as you approach 21 but they will be an, I think coordinator is the key word. They are your coordinator for these DDA services after you finish that comprehensive assessment, and you need to be on the lookout for a letter from DDA again, if you don't receive anything in a timely manner, then try and reach out either to your transition specialist or the eligibility specialist up at DDA, just to follow up, they will send that generic packet that everyone gets. And the key thing to be on the lookout for is what the they have deemed the status for your young adult at that time. Within all that text, you'll see a little section that might say, you know, DDA future needs no CCS assigned. So what that is telling you is that they've determined that your young adult will be eligible and will need that funding at 21 after they leave the school system, and they're saying that there's no funding now because they're not 21 and I think that's the most confusing thing for a lot of families, because I will get a very, you know, anxious phone call or email saying, well, they said there's no funding. I said, Well, that's true. They don't have funding right now because they're not 21 but they're telling you yes, when he hits 21 they will be ready for him. So DDA, future need it's a good thing. DD, current request means that they recognize, typically, that your child will be exiting within three years. So this usually is the status for students who are ages 18 to 21 and current request would usually mean you're assigned a coordinator or CCS sometimes. And I don't know why DDA does this, but I've had students who were 14 or 15 and are at current request. I...there's no rhyme or reason to it, but hey, then you get a coordinator assigned, which isn't a bad thing. You won't get much from them at that point, but you'll have a person who may change again and again and again before they hit 21 but so DD current requests basically recognizes that they also will receive those services at 21 but you might have a coordinator now and then. The last category is supports only. Now this one could be for a few reasons. Supports only basically recognizes maybe there's a need, but not have enough need, and they're not going they're not eligible to receive services at 21 you're not going to have a coordinator, and it used to be a waiting list, but they're just, there's nothing for that group now supports only. I've had families who have been given that status before just because, when they submitted the DDA application, they didn't include documentation with it. So DDA didn't see the need or recognize the fact that even though they have a disability, it might not impact them long term, yet they needed that, you know, reports or IEP to show that it does. The other reason could be if there was too old of documentation sent, they just need more current assessments completed and sent to them. So I wouldn't worry if you got a supports only and your child is still younger, usually by 18, if they are still supports only, I definitely suggest sending them updated assessments. And if you don't have those from school yet, try and find out where that re evaluation is happening so it can align and you can get those updated assessments. It's possible to upgrade the status from that so back to that coordinator, the coordinator of Community Services, CCS, usually. When you are told that you're going to be assigned one, you get another generic letter from DDA and says you need to pick an agency. Otherwise, we're going to pick one for you. And again, parents don't know what to do. I wish they didn't send so many generic letters, because it's just so impersonal. But anyway, they will list the different agencies you can pick from, and you're the parent is just supposed to select one. And I always get the question, well, how do I know which one's better? What do you suggest? Who should I go with? And honestly, you can look at the websites, you can gather information about each one, but your best resource would be talking to other parents and who have a coordinator, and ask them their opinion, and go on those Facebook groups for parents, or, you know, if there's a group douse the county or your school, just gather some information from others who are going through it. That's going to be your best bet. And I can tell you, amongst all of them, since the pandemic, there has just been a huge turnover, and it's unfortunate, but I can't say one has it better than the other, but it really comes down to the coordinator that you're assigned, not so much the agency, because you might have a really good coordinator with an agency that others are like, meh, and you always have the option to change coordinators and agencies, and it's not an overly long process. I've had parents in their exiting year switch agencies, and it was only a two week turnaround, and they were matched up with a new one. But just so you know, for our county, we have or five now, nope, six now, sorry, they just added a new one, and that would be Service Coordination, MMARS, or Medical Management and Rehabilitation Services, the Coordinating Center, Optimal Health Care, Total Care, and the newest one is Beatrice Loving Heart.

Patrick Cadigan: 21:49

But again, it sounds like the best thing to do is to talk to other parents like...

Meghan Smallwood: 21:53

Absolutely.

Patrick Cadigan: 21:54

...and use their experiences.

Meghan Smallwood: 21:55

And I will say too, there can also be confusion. These are not the agencies who are going to provide the actual services through DDA. These are the agencies that the coordinator, who you you will pick, or the agency that you will pick, the coordinator will be assigned to you to help you navigate the DDA providers and timeline and paperwork.

Patrick Cadigan: 22:19

Let's talk about, okay, so the the young adult has hit 21. What happens, what happens at 21?

Meghan Smallwood: 22:31

So, and I don't think I mentioned this in our last one, but the coordinator, or CCS that's assigned to your young adult as they're approaching 21 you should be hearing from them more frequently, as opposed to the one year check in, Hey. How you doing? You still there? They should be contacting you every few months. And again, there's not much to be said or done, but at least acknowledging that they recognize that your child is turning 21 soon, and then prior to that last year, they should be explaining the process a little bit more and encouraging you to visit day programs, if that's the pathway you're going to take. So that last school year is the big year where you're really going to want your transition specialist to help with things from the school side. They are going to be a key player in this, along with your CCS. You really all will be working together as a team. You are going to want to explore day programs in the area, if that's like I said, the pathway you're going or at least get information on what's available, and consider, if you're going that traditional route, there are not as many in Howard County as we would like to have. However, the ones that have been here have been here for many years, so they have good reputations. And again, like we've talked about before, it's really helpful to talk to other parents who may already have a young adult at some of these places and get their opinions. Keep in mind, though, every young adult is different. So what doesn't work for Johnny may work for Susan and vice versa. I've had two parents walk into the same program and walk out with completely different thoughts about it. But you know, overall, just to find out what the process or what the day may look like at a day program, it helps to recognize, start recognizing, what the differences may be between the school day and a day program day.

Patrick Cadigan: 24:32

One question that I have, and this is a little bit of a segue, but I wanted to kind of throw it out there. Can we talk about the difference between entitlement versus eligibility, because I know that there is a significant difference.

Meghan Smallwood: 24:47

Yeah, that's a big one too, and really needs to be recognized as you're looking at these programs. So while your student or young adult is in the school system, they are entitled to services. They are covered. And buy that, and you know they have the IEP and all the supports. Once they leave, they are now eligible for services, which means you may have your top choice for a day program where you want them to go, but they may be denied, or they may not be accepted because they don't feel like they can meet their needs, or they don't have the staffing for them, or they don't have the necessary accommodation. So you really have to be on top of it and aware that it's not an automatic transfer over to a new place. They need to be found eligible and be accepted. I talked a little bit about the traditional route, and I know on our website, we have links for many of the different day programs...

Patrick Cadigan: 25:47

There will be a link, there will be a link to the show notes in that too, because we have, we have two separate pages, right? We have the traditional route, which is going to include the agencies, but then we also have a relatively new page on self directed.

Meghan Smallwood: 26:02

Right. So if you opt, if you find the traditional nutritional root of a day program may not be the best fit for your young adult. Self direction is another pathway from DDA, which you can explore. And since the pandemic, I feel like more and more parents are opting for this just because of the individualization of it and the flexibility. So it's definitely a good thing to explore and just weigh both options. We have a plethora of information on that on our website, and it's definitely a topic if you are interested in to talk to your CCS about to find out what their knowledge base is on it. All CCS are trained with it, but some may be more familiar on it than others. So it's just good to have that conversation. If it's something you're seriously considering. Definitely be exploring all those at the beginning of the school year of that last exiting year. By your see your and I should say your CCS. CCS will be checking in with you, making sure you're exploring the transition. Specialist can help you set up tours, give you contact information, help arrange any meetings with some of the agencies, the day programs. Go out and visit the program, talk to the directors, see if you're able to take a tour of the facility and just get a feel for it and see you know if you think it would be a good option for your young adult, or if you're doing self directed start brainstorming. What is it that they really like? What would be a meaningful day for them? Would they be volunteering? Would they be employed? Would they just want to be out in the community and start thinking about any connections you might have or could make to help plan a day for them? So that will all be happening in the fall, and with your CCS and your transition specialist health and you're really going to want to have it narrowed down before the winter break, usually December time of what agencies are your top choice, or day programs or your top choice, or if it is self directed that you definitely are going to pursue, your coordinator will be asking the transition specialist and yourself to start gathering up those necessary documentations. And again, like we mentioned with the initial application for DDA, they really want to see those records that explain the severity of the disability and the need for support and how much need for support will be there when they exit. All that information is going to go into a matrix score, which is a number that your that DDA will be giving you your young adult to explain what how much support they need afterwards. So that matrix score is really two scores, and it is based off of the health and safety and supervision that your young adult requires. And again, that documentation is really going to drive it. The paperwork for that is submitted from DDA to a third party, and then they give the number. Someone goes through all the records, and they determine a number for your young adult. Five is the biggest or the highest number you can get, and five is like the maximum amount of support needed, which can often drive if you're going for a day program, a one on one, support one is the lowest, which means that they're pretty much independent, and support is not as as needed for them, I would say typically we see like a two, three, maybe a four, if you feel like that, the number really isn't a good match, though, you can always appeal it and talk to your coordinator about it, but that's the number really will drive the need for support. And so the coordinator will be submitting all that you know, you're just going to check in with them to make sure they have what they need, and they will let you know when the number's been determined. So once the matrix score is determined, that is part of what will be submitted for. DDA towards the exact waiver that your young adult is going to be put into. There's three different waivers. And I know we talked about one last time when we were discussing initial DDA information. But the family supports waivers. The waiver for children birth, 21 and that's specifically for different support services. The two other waivers that are you the ones after 21 is the Community Pathways waiver and the Community Supports Waiver. So the Community Pathways waiver really encompasses a meaningful day support and residential services. Okay, that's the big difference. So Community Pathways includes residential community support waiver includes meaningful day and support services. Okay? So I know parents get very nervous about which waiver, which waiver should they go to? Which waiver Do you think they need to be in? Ultimately, DDA makes that decision based off of the needs of the young adult at that current time. So you really don't need to worry about which waiver they're going to be placed in. Regardless of whether it's community pathways or community supports, they will have funding for a meaningful day. And that is what DDA is concerned about. After they leave a 21 they want everyone to have meaningful day. Residential really comes into play if, for example, the young adult is already in a residential and it needs to continue after 21 or, like we said, Before, there is really a crisis or a need at home that they need to be out of the house. I mean, you can, you know, you can always put it out there if you really want your young adult to live, you know, on their own at some point. It's a great long term goal, and it's one that I think everyone should at least consider. But at 21 the first step is really that meaningful day. So you are not tied to one waiver for the rest of their life. You can always it can always be switched if residential does become into play, but it's really the waiver, and which waiver is really not a huge concerning factor.

Patrick Cadigan: 32:18

I think one of the things that I find really interesting about what you said in terms of the residential is, is that I remember one of the conversations that we had with a parent who was totally comfortable with not having their child like, leave the house, right, like they were that was not a conversation that they were willing to have. So I mean, like you said, it really just depends on...

Meghan Smallwood: 32:39

Yeah.

Patrick Cadigan: 32:39

...what families are interested in.

Meghan Smallwood: 32:40

And more often than not, I find a lot of the families say, Oh no, no, they they don't need to move out, like at 21 and that's, that's, that's fine, you know? I mean, how many kids went to college and came home and lived there until they got their feet wet in the real world and settled but it is something to consider, and I didn't, we can definitely talk about the different options down the road, but, like, it doesn't have to be a group home, because I also think there's that, like, stereotype of, oh, they're going to be stuck in a group home with, you know, six or seven other people. But there's other not and then there's nothing wrong with that. My sister lives in a group home. It's a great option for her, but there's other other ways of doing it too, like, supported living. Or, my the other name is escaping right now, but like it's, it's definitely something to research down the road, you know, and never say, Never once did the and this all does fall in a timeline for DDA. And I know a lot of times DDA might be backed up on their timeline, or the coordinators often just waiting for the the okay from DDA to submit things. So it can be a waiting game. And a lot of times the winter into spring is and I know it can be kind of anxiety ridden from families, when you just want to make sure things that are progressing and you're kind of at a standpoint. But when DDA gives the Okay, they can apply, and they will find out, you know, your waiver, and that's when they really can start talking about the person centered planning. And that is kind of like, in a sense, the IEP moving forward, because that will be where all the supports are listed. Goals for your young adult are listed. It's kind of driving things from there on out, and it's something that's revisited every year to make sure it's still relevant and updated. But the person centered plan will really encompass the young adult, the family, the coordinator. And if you decide to go with a day program, they would be involved. Or if you go self directed, that would really drive the what the services from your budget will be used for moving forward.

Patrick Cadigan: 34:46

I remember the person centered planning that came up during one of the parent panels that we had attended recently, and there was quite a bit of discussion around that.

Meghan Smallwood: 34:56

Yeah, and it's really important to start thinking about that. Know, even before that exit year, you know, think about that person centered plan and have, and I know one of our parents had talked about having, like, an extended meeting with not only the school, but inviting people who know their their young adult, and getting their input, and just putting together the whole picture of your young adult and what would make him or her happy to live a good life, and that's what it's all about. You know, everyone's got it's so individualized as to what a good life or meaningful day is for each person. And we really want that person centered plan to show that. So it's definitely good to plan ahead. And then once things are started in motion from DDA, and you have identified, if you're going with a day program, you've identified the day program you're interested in. You know the coordinator really will be working with the admissions counselor for the program to make sure it they they will be accepting them. Some of the day programs do a trial. They want to have the young adult come out for a couple days to see if it's a good fit. They want to go visit them at school to get to know them a little bit, talk to the teacher or other service providers, just to make sure it would be a good place for them. And it also comes down to staffing. At this point, I know a lot of them are still kind of putting individuals on a waiting list because staffing has been such an issue. So I'm hoping with time it will get better, that there are a lot of factors, which is why it's good to have more than one choice in mind for after exit, and then ideally after July 1 is when services could start from DDA and again, it all comes down to the process, and if things were submitted in a timely manner, and everything's in order, and the agency or day program that you've selected is ready to go, I will say, notoriously in the past, self directed plans have taken a little longer to start, typically, not in July. I know a lot that have been maybe end of summer, even into the fall, just because there's so many logistics that need to be figured out. And it can be a little harder when you because ultimately, self direct. And I don't think I mentioned this, you were given the budget from DDA, and it's basically developing the day for your young adult. And you know what they're going to do, who's going to work with them, hiring the staff, finding the activities or the volunteer opportunities. So DDA just needs to, they want to make sure that it all belongs in the budget. So there's a lot of back and forth and checking to make sure things are okay. As always, you'll find links to the information from our conversations in our show notes. We would love for the information from this and all our other discussions to reach as many families as possible, and we need your help to do that. You can find our conversations at www, dot P, twotransition.com, like, follow, share out the podcast. Our conversations are posted to all the major platforms, including Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, music, and that's just naming a few. So please share and share often.

Patrick Cadigan: 38:25

Please check out our YouTube channel. We've done some of the legwork for you by curating videos of topics that revolve around transition. We have playlists for guardianship, alternatives to guardianship ABLE accounts, and there's more to come. So please be sure to subscribe there as well. And finally, check out our website, which is full of information and links to resources around the transition process. Open your web browser of choice and surf to www.postsecondarytransition.com we thank you so much for the time that you've spent with us, and look forward to talking again soon.