Meghan Smallwood: 0:00

Embarking on the journey of transitioning from the familiar confines of secondary education to the uncharted territories of adulthood can be daunting for any student. For families of students with disabilities. This process presents a unique set of challenges and uncertainties. As your child prepares on stepping into the world beyond, it's natural to feel overwhelmed by the myriad of decisions and cost considerations that lie ahead. And that is what we're here to talk about. Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition podcast. We have conversations around that process of transition for families of students with disabilities. I'm one of the hosts My name is Meghan Smallwood, and I'm a public school transition coordinator. And with me is...

Patrick Cadigan: 0:39

My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am a public school special education teacher. And this week, we are headed right back into the very familiar format, the interview format, and Meghan, do you want to set us up?

Meghan Smallwood: 0:53

I would love to today we have one of the fabulous Transition Specialists for our county who I work alongside with and is just full of energy and always willing to go above and beyond for everybody, Meredith Gregoire-Cope. And I realized I never actually say your full last name. We always call you GC. So...

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 1:12

Yes.

Meghan Smallwood: 1:12

I hopefully I said that. Right, Gregoire-Cope.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 1:17

It's perfect. Perfect. Yeah, JC is just much easier. I feel like.

Meghan Smallwood: 1:22

To start, I know a little bit about your background, Meredith. But do you mind telling us a little bit of where you started with your journey into special education?

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 1:32

Yeah.So I am Howard County, born and raised. I grew up in Maryland. And so for me, one of the things that I guess you can say was a privilege that we got to do, if we earned the right was to be able to help out and volunteer in the special education class. So I was really excited. I always got to do that. And my dad, when I was 12 years old, told me pick a job and stick to a kid. He's like old school, angry man from New York. And so that was it. I just, I wanted to be a special ed teacher. So I went to Notre Dom in Maryland, and graduated with a dual degree in special ed and Gen Ed. Yeah, I moved to my current county, and elementary school was my big thing. And I actually, my first placement was an elementary school. And I actually got to move to working with our director, Terry savage. And I really was impressed with the way with her leadership. And she told me, I should work as a team leader. And I was able to do that at another elementary school for six years. And I learned a lot about myself and a lot about leadership. But I really felt like I wanted to work in transition, I found out about that. And I feel like and I'm sure you'll, you'll agree, Meghan, there's not a lot of information about what a transition teacher does. And I feel like we're learning more about that as we go along. And I've had to get my foot in the door first by moving to high school and working in a position of just being in one of our local only programs. So I was able to do that, get my foot in the door for a couple years, and then slide into the transition position into that same secondary position there. And now I'm moving into my third year there. So I'm getting into like my 21st year I feel like of teaching now, like getting super old. Transition is I feel like the highlight of my life. I am like so excited in that position. I really love job development and working with diploma and certificate students and just really understanding the differences between the two jobs, I really feel like my passion is really working with the certificate side of students. And I'm, I guess, people describe me as someone who really thinks outside of the box. And I feel like that's not the most typical side of a transition teacher. I feel like I'm kind of on the outside of things, which is where that comes from. But I have really enjoyed trying to look at in our county, how we can help our students who are going down the certificate path, find access to what their passion is when it comes to jobs.

Meghan Smallwood: 4:24

So I know everyone can't see, I think but I was like nodding like crazy. Like when you're like "yeah, I tend to think outside the box," because that's I think my favorite thing about you like you definitely crossed the lines and a good way of like getting people on board with those like ideas that normally I think traditionally we wouldn't consider. So I love that and I think we need more of that in our county.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 4:51

I think COVID really opened our eyes to thinking about what We are able to do for our friends with disabilities. If we realize what COVID did for us, it really made us think it stopped jobs for us not it made us really think like, oh my god, we there's so many jobs that we don't have any more just for typical adults and and people like there were so many. We were stifled from jobs. And so many people were forced to work from home, and people want to continue to work from home. And now I feel like there's even still people are trying to find jobs and so many places don't have opportunities now. But you have to realize how many more opportunities are our adults with disabilities don't have now because of COVID. And that's really stifled our programs inside of the school building, and even more so in our agencies, and even more so for our adults that have not been able to go back to our agency. So we're so far behind in these opportunities that it has required, the people that are willing to take the risk, like myself and Megan and some of our other transition teachers to really think of how can we get the people in inside of our county to extend themselves and really be flexible in their thinking, to give the students and these adults an opportunity to work.

Meghan Smallwood: 6:16

And I think you're right, like I think since COVID, it's almost kind of like a competition amongst us and the other agencies and whoever else is out there for these jobs because they became a little more limited. And we're all like after the same goal. But it really, I think you've done such a good job of really like going out and researching and finding those other opportunities that people might not have thought about. And I think that's something important to mention, too. Especially we've talked about this before with a lot of our self directed friends, you know, thinking not just only going into a business, but what can I bring into my own home to help a business because I think that was something we really had to rely on a lot when we returned to the school building, and we couldn't get out there. You know, I think you you found a lot of jobs that we could bring into them, and they would work and then we would bring it back. So it's still that that relationship just in a different format. But you're still connected to the community in another way.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 7:11

Yeah, I think. And Patrick, I don't know if he knows. But one of my my favorite things when it was we were in the heat of COVID. Right. And so I worked for I worked in a school where I think our parents were, you know, they were so scared of what COVID was going to do for us. But they still were like, Hey, listen, we still need something for our students to do like you still need to get on the grind. We don't know what COVID is, we don't know what's going to happen. But guess what, you're their case manager and you're still going to find something to do. And I was like, I have a baby at home. And I'm not leaving this house. And I would like wear a mask. And I wouldn't wear a hazmat suit if you'd let me but I just heard of this amazing teacher named Meghan Smallwood. And I'm just going to ask her whatever I needed to do, and, and I found this subscription box. And I like to say, and one of them was how to be a chef, or I'm a chef too, and watching everything available now that we might create a box. Yeah, my pre K box, shout out to both of them. And they were very small companies at the time. And I just randomly reached out to them through social media. And I was like, Hey, I am a teacher in so and so County. And, you know, I noticed that you're basically working working from home mom used to be a teacher, can I have the students that will work for free for you? Can we just put together your subscription materials for you? And they were like, ah, yeah, and it's like, okay, and so I would meet my students at my school and sit 10 feet away. And I would meet the lady and just grab the boxes give it to the students. And they were like, just materials for like students two through six. The other one were was edibles like foods that would create instructional materials, I couldn't give it to all my students. And we work for them. And it spiraled into like working for our, our work company that we have through our school system. And one of them ended up on Shark Tank. And so they turned into a million dollar company, so we can't work for them anymore. But the other one, she lets us don't work for them. But the we even have, Megan works for the works with the mother, she works her husband Foundation, and her son actually is employed through that company and gets paid for them to work. And so we're like building the relationships that are helping students feel accomplished and that they're doing meaningful work every single day. And I think that's the most important thing, Megan and I always talk to these these companies for because they say, Oh, I feel guilty that we're, we're using, you know, your the students work. It's like, No, you don't understand these kids feel accomplished. They're building work employment skills, they can use it on their resumes when they leave here at 21. And they're trying to find work moving forward. But also these are huge employability skills that they didn't have when they're sitting in the classroom and they're trying to build vocational skills.

Meghan Smallwood: 9:51

And this is part of their educational like curriculum in a sense. You know, I think we just discussed this with one of the places that they were volunteering in There's a little pushback about having them come volunteer because it's for free. But it's it's their education. You know, I know it looks different than I think it's still not so accepted by everybody or understood by everybody. But like you said, they practice all the skills in in the building. I mean, think about them doing that for six or seven years, they're gonna get bored, like, Okay, here's the same pencil I'm sharpening like, but if they know it's going into a box, it's been delivered to kids who are actually using it for something. It's just yeah, like you said, so meaningful. And I remember that phone call over COVID time when you called me, and you had these ideas. And I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, she talks very quickly..."

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 10:40

Still to this day.

Meghan Smallwood: 10:41

But I think it's like all those out of the box thinking like, honestly, I literally just had, they're doing bingo night at my kids Elementary School, and I'm on the committee, and I'm like, we can take care of those folders for us. So now I have my students packing up the manila folders for bingo, I don't know if you're going Patrick, but if you do your bingo card, by our students, so there's just so many out of the box jobs like that.

Patrick Cadigan: 11:07

So one question then that I have, Meredith is, do you have like a process, like in terms of how do you come up with the ideas for it? Are you do you start with your student? And then work your way out? Or, how does it How does that work?

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 11:21

No, my...unfortunately, my brands like one of the you know, those Beautiful Mind type things where you like writing the, the mathematician, like example on the board. And I actually think that's what's the best thing about it is that I'm not a selfish person when it comes to these ideas. And, and I actually was very fortunate today with our, this year with our supervisors, she allowed me to work for one of our programs, which is community connections. So we have several levels of independence in our programs, which I think is amazing. And I and this is another level of things that we're working on, Meghan myself in our transition teachers and in special education is we have different levels that we want to see an independence for our students in our work programs. And there should be a nice flow of independence in our programs. And that's something that we consistently talk about, and that we want to see levels of independence for our students in our work programs, and why we're always thinking of different work sites and how they could function for students, right, because it's, again, there's it's an IEP, right is, is for each student, you don't just put each student in a box. And that's how it's going to fit a worksite also should not you can't just put every single kid into a worksite. So if you think about just our one worksite that is staffed for students who need more support, we have over 100 students in those work sites. But as we get more and more independent, those should be individualized. So as Megan and I have come on together, you know, this is only like my third year working. As a transition teacher, we've been fortunate enough to work and create independent work sites. And then we think of like Community Connections is over at the college and, and those two should be independent work sites. And then we think of even Project Search, which is the most independent and should be government jobs. But again, with COVID, that hasn't been the case as well. So we've also tried to extend resources where we've reached out to people in the community for those sites. So my mother in law works. Or she's on the board for the ark. So when I went to the chocolate ball, for example, I was just trying to randomly reach out to people and just say, hey, oh, you're working for this? Would you meet with Megan and I just to discuss opportunities of, of where we could possibly have our students working or volunteering with you for here or anytime I'm at the grocery store. It's, it's really, I think, Meghan might have told me one time when you are in a area where you know, people are where you feel comfortable with people, your everyday life. Those are the people that know you the best. Those are the people you want to reach out and make connections with because if they know who you are as a person, they know you at the core. Yeah. Meredith talks a lot and Meredith's a little like crazy. But you know, marriage is a good person. So you trust Meredith. And if you trust Meredith, then you will give her the opportunity to have her students work for you and volunteer with you. And I've been able to make really good connections for the county and for our work programs because of that. And that's something I always tell my parents when they're looking especially for self directed parents. That's something I always tell the transition teachers that's something I always tell the CCE teachers it's an it's almost like a web right, it extends, extends extend and so when I'm out in the community, I try to do that when I just extend myself and a friendly hello or smile. The worst thing that can happen is they say no to me. The best thing is I make another job for us are connection.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:01

And I think that's been a huge way that we've gotten a lot of jobs for our work program, because we have someone's husband works at a church or somebody's mother, you know, goes to the store, whatever it may be. So I think it's just a matter, like you said, of just being out in your community and recognizing, oh, they could use our help doing this. And it could be the simplest mundane task, but it's something that our students have been working towards, and it would be meaningful to them.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 15:26

I think it's just too that Megan, myself and a couple other vets, we honestly think it is so crucial and so important to the success of the students that we put 100% in every single day, to find different careers and different...

Meghan Smallwood: 15:46

Opportunities.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 15:47

...clusters and stirred...

Meghan Smallwood: 15:47

Yup.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 15:48

...opportunities. Not just the same thing for them. And...

Meghan Smallwood: 15:51

Yeah.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 15:51

...that's what a good transition teacher does a good transition teacher will look at all different areas.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:57

Right? It's not just custodial. And there's some some friends that love some cleaning a window. We know that's not for everybody. And yeah, that's why I think it's so important. We're always scouring like the internet, or just looking at different stores to see, you know, what other field we can capture. And I think I know, summer is coming. And a lot of times around this time of the year, I have families who are looking for job opportunities over the summer. And I'm always like, Well, what about like, where you go to church? What about in the neighborhood? What about people that, you know, is there anything that they could help them with like, and it's just like that first step to naturally think of your circle of support and any potential opportunities there. Because that's really going to be helpful, too, when they exhibit 21. You know, you've got those connections already made. And like you said before, I think that trust is really big, because I know, when we start a relationship with a new business, we often have to like, it's like when you're first dating, and you're like, alright, is this really gonna work? Like we got to see you got to feel it out. And then once you build that trust in that relationship, they're like, sure, you know, come more, bring more. And also, it's, it's really like a little song and dance you have to go through first.

Patrick Cadigan: 17:04

Meredith, one question that I do have in, you kind of hit the nail on the head earlier, when we first started in the conversation, that, in this, in a lot of the discussions that we have had, we concentrate a lot on our students who are either not on the diploma track or who have special needs significant special needs. However, there is a large contingent of the population are diploma-bound friends, and you said, you've enjoyed getting to know the differences between the two. Could you speak briefly then about what does that look like? Like for you as somebody who's just getting into this?

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 17:47

Yeah, and I think for me, DORS and then the work the Workforce Center training, and I have to say I, we also have a new position this year, the I would say wrong now like the CCR, C are they changed their name, like all over the place, but...

Meghan Smallwood: 18:02

College and Career Readiness.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 18:04

...Readiness? I think I have the best one of the bunch. I call him the Gits. Okay, but so he is just the best. He's like my big muscle man. He is just a vast amount of resources. Like right now, he just invited me to come on for field trips that he's taking. So he really has been a wealth of knowledge about like career path connectors, and exposing the kids to like different trade schools that are coming up. Megan did an amazing job with the field trip we just took for HCC for juniors and seniors that the transition teachers put together, which is amazing. I love working with Diane Neagle over at HCC I think it's just so impactful. And I think since Meghan took it over the past is two years now. I just think it has improved 100-fold that I think the kids have gotten so much out of it. I immensely you know, had just, I'm falling in love with HCC more and more each year for me and then DORS. I have so each of us as the transition teachers we have a DORS rep for each of our schools and mine's Jilian Steinhardt. And I just love Jilian, she is so present in each of the IEP meetings that we have. And she she attends my IEP meetings for freshmen, which I don't always listen, DORS is going to have a different relationship with with each other the people that they work with, I find Jilian to be extremely responsive, extremely communicative. And with your DORS rep, they really depending on the relationship depending on the communication you have with that person, they're able to kind of share what resources are available for that student. They're able to share what programs that that student is eligible for and really talk about what path they're gonna go down and I have found her to be so helpful again, with with what is going on. So like we had a student that was really interested in doing like the weeble, which is like a path where they can go on like a certain amount of week program where they're working in a different location and there's opportunities to get paid. And she was able to walk the student and the parent was present in the meeting, the student is present arched, I was welcomed to be present. And it was just so open, the communication was amazing. And I really enjoyed that whole conversation we were able to do right there. So for me being able to see that the Workforce Training Center, they're offering a really nice summer internship program that's paid, you can work from home. If that's works better, you can work in different locations, that again, that's something that gets offered to me, too, that he was handing out flyers for I'm sorry, I don't have to call them that way. So I really liked that co-teaching, like I call it co-teaching, but that's something we're doing together too, so... I think the one thing I'm really good, I Well, it's like that partnership like and... was like, I don't know all the answers. And if I don't, then... knows, at the college, she does the

Meghan Smallwood: 19:04

Yeah. Right. Jumpstart program. And so she's really invested in that piece as well. So I really do enjoy working with him. That's another resource he brings in then.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 21:21

Only agree. So...

Meghan Smallwood: 21:24

But yeah, I think that's like that's something I tell parents to like, I'm not sure but I love going down the rabbit hole and finding the information. And honestly, it's helped so much like every little situation that I've encountered. I just keep like a document or you know, a folder and I'm like, Oh, wait, I have looked this up before and then it comes to use for another parent. So it's everything so individualized. But you can at least leave them to the right person.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 21:49

I also to like I have enjoyed with these computer paths really learning a lot more about ARL and also the apprenticeships this year. I'm really excited because we actually were able to get one of our certificate students over at ARL for next year, which I know it's like a little bit off track, Patrick, what you were saying but just understanding what apprenticeships are and what ARL offers to our students. I wish to that we could just extend and get so much more bar students, but you know, it's just understanding what they bring to our students.

Patrick Cadigan: 22:19

Real quickly. For those of us who don't know, ARL, what is, what is that?

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 22:23

The Applied... Research Lab. And there's just a variety there's... Oh god, I want to say is there like 12 or 13...

Meghan Smallwood: 22:31

...different career academy is for students who are interested in a specific path. And they're really great because they give the students like opportunities to have internships, certifications to leave school already, like, you know, ready to go and into that field, a lot of times.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 22:47

You do have to apply though, in your sophomore year. And you do find out in your sophomore year, if you make it and then you do go, junior year, you go the first two periods of the day, senior year, the last two, two and a half right, depending...

Meghan Smallwood: 23:00

The half day off. Yep, have, a half day off campus from your regular school.

Patrick Cadigan: 23:04

All right and then I wanted to because I have to admit, in the back of my head, I have been having this question. My understanding, and I think I remember seeing it something about it on Facebook, you had an opportunity, you helped out the Washington Capitals?

Meghan Smallwood: 23:20

Oh, yes!

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 23:22

Okay. And look, I'm not even I am not Molly Milani is one of our best, best, best best, best. I call her my inclusion specialist teacher, but everyone always called them the resource ones, which I think is the weirdest...

Meghan Smallwood: 23:32

Oh, I just call them the gen ed, special educator.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 23:32

Right, the gen ed special educator. So, she actually has a connection with the Capitals. So she actually reached out and she actually did, she's the one that got us the real estate thing as well. I'll talk about that next too. But again, so it's like the team working together to together she; yeah, she tagged them on social media, and they send it out. And she brought it in, and it was like 5000 pieces of work that was just put together. But again, it was, I think it was like two or three weeks of work for us. But again, it was just thinking outside of the box. She randomly came up to us and was like, Hey, do you think this is something you guys would be interested in? It's probably boring for you. And I was like, Are you out of your mind? Like I was like, this is something that would be so meaningful to them. And again, for our students, we have a couple students who find motors an issue for them. And they enjoyed it so much, because it was almost like we just had a systematic train running, right? And they got it done in two weeks. And they were blown away. They actually sent the kids like, what do you call that like flair, like free stuff? And then I was I actually called Megan I think what last week because we had a real estate agent who I have been working with and Molly had been working with. And we had a staff member that used to work at our school. And they were like, Oh, we really need some help. And because she reached out to us, she had 12 other real estate agents that are also wanting to work with us. And so they're just like bombarding us with stuff offer now. So it's like, you just help one person. So I'm sure that you are literally saving my marriage. And I was like, no, no, you are saving my life. And she was like, we're gonna send you pizzas every week. That's not, that's not gonna help my thighs lady. So, you know, like, but it's, you know, just the these opportunities where people are so overwhelmed by tasks that they find, like you said, you know, I don't say mundane, or they find PDFs or they're just easy. It's and tasks are taking hours upon hours of their day. And we talked about it that our students who right now are in the classroom, and they're not able to go out to work yet, because we can't send our little ones out to work until junior senior year. These are amazing tasks for them. Because we're really able to collect data and say, Hey, we're starting to notice that so and so are showing independence, they're showing the time on task is up to 30 to 45 minutes, we're showing they're able to follow multi step directions, like they would be great for us to send out to the workforce, or the opposite. Because when we have these parents that say to us, I want them out to work immediately, we're like, Hey, let me show you this data collection we have, there's a couple of things we're noticing X, Y, and Z that are concerning for us, I just was able to get a connection with the four H group. And that's been amazing this year, they've been able to come in and work with our guys working with nature and building and developing crafts with the kids, but they're also working on finance skills with them, they want to come back and actually expand, of course, I'm always going to look for Meghan and you know, expand into her school, my sister works at another high school, she goes out to work. So we're going to try and get into her school today, we're going to try and write a grant as well to get funding done in the high schools to expand. So for me, it's like, you know, there's your limitless ends, it's just I need to try and slow my brain down. But for me, I just think these kids need to be out at work all the time. Because, you know, you got to think about the fact that 6/7 years is a really long time to be stuck in a classroom.

Meghan Smallwood: 27:13

Well and you're trying to set them up for real life.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 27:16

Well yeah, because I mean, I think we've if we tallied I'd love to know how many of our friends especially the self-directed path, have productive jobs afterward. And that's, that's what I really do worry about for our friends as...

Meghan Smallwood: 27:29

I think it's also giving, like parents, you know, the ability to see they they're capable, I think so many times. And even I see a lot of special occasions, they're stuck on a job has to be 9-to-5, 40 hours a week, you know, Monday through Friday. So I think it's just changing that mindset and realizing a job could be couple hours a day, working at home or in, you know, in a store or something doing this task. And that is a meaningful job that is there like good life. So I think it's just parents realizing that and seeing that before they leave, and knowing that they're their child has a purpose in that.

Patrick Cadigan: 28:09

Based on the conversations that we've had also, between ourselves, and then also with some of the parents that we talked to I also feel like the word that comes to my mind when we have that discussion is agency like knowing that they can, you know, make an impact or, you know, have some ideas. I always go back to the conversation that we have with Pam. Pam, which is walk out in public and be like, Hey, who's going to employ my kid?

Meghan Smallwood: 28:29

Yeah.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 28:29

Yep.

Patrick Cadigan: 28:29

And, you know...

Meghan Smallwood: 28:30

Yeah. And she was serious about it, too.

Patrick Cadigan: 28:32

Yeah. Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 28:33

And it's so admirable, because she's like, Yeah, he can work, put them to work. And I still remember like she was talking about, like, when he was hired, and the person he was working for had a question. They just called up Pam. And she's like, Just tell him to do it. And it was just like a matter of wording. But it was something so simple to get through, you know, and they were willing to, so...

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 28:56

I do wish, and I think this is something we struggle with in the school system and with family sometimes is our ability to have warm, open conversations sometimes. And I know that our families get, you know, especially when they get towards the end, the anxiety builds. And sometimes trust is hard. And I just wish we can have more thoughtful, easier conversations. And that is the one thing that's that's hard for me is the reality of what's coming next for them. And I don't know how to bring their guard down sometimes. And we could just get through all the muck of it and kind of just say, like, hey, please, like just kind of show them a crystal ball. Like what it's going to look like if we just don't break it down. And I'm hoping more people can listen your podcast and I think like sometimes they like, you know, it's like, listen, listen, or you know, just try but...

Patrick Cadigan: 29:43

I think one of the things that goes back to that, and when you were saying earlier again was about trust. I as I was focusing in on the I've been in the school system now for seven years, and I've been fortunate enough to build relationships with families of the students that I work with that we've had some pretty hard conversations. And it goes to show a level of trust, when you can openly have those conversations. And but it is not. It is not easy. It is not easy. And...some...

Meghan Smallwood: 30:16

...sometimes it takes having that conversation and letting it sink in.

Patrick Cadigan: 30:20

Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:21

them come back when they're ready.

Patrick Cadigan: 30:22

Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:22

...for more.

Patrick Cadigan: 30:23

Yeah. Some are some are more willing to have the conversation than others. But yeah, again, just the fact that it's being brought up and kind of like, Hey, this is something that we should be thinking about.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:32

Yeah, I've had parents tell me that, like, we'd sit down when their child was like 14, or 15. And I go through the timeline and tell them some of the things that might not be easy to hear about, you know, when you're gone, and this and that. And I've had them come back years later. And they're like, you know, I didn't want to hear that. You said it, and it stuck in the back of my mind. And I knew I had to come around. And eventually, when I was ready, like I knew what I was facing. So it's I think we always struggle with that we've had this conversation about like trying to get down to the middle school, when they're really young, and start the conversations then. But it really comes down to who's ready to hear it. And even if they, if we don't think they're ready to hear they act like they don't, they're not ready to hear it. Some of that information still getting in there, you know, just presenting it to them. I think, you know, it's just slowly seeping in. But it's got to be it's got to be thought about early on. Well, thank you, Meredith, for all that information. I know you could go on and on. And I'm sure tomorrow morning at 6am. We'll get a text from you. "Oh, wait, I should have mentioned this." We can always add it in later. But we appreciate all your hard work and your out of the box thinking and you are such a tremendous support to these families. And they're very lucky to have you.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 31:53

Thank you.

Patrick Cadigan: 31:55

All right. And well, with that being said, I as usual, when we have conversations like this, I always feel like we're just scratching the surface. And we probably could do some more again. So of course, we're probably going to do more again. But in the meantime, in the meantime, we need you to do us a favor, we need you to like follow please share out the podcast we want share out the information from these discussions with as many families as we can. And we need your help to do it. We're on all the major podcast platforms through Apple, Spotify, YouTube music, just to name a few. So go out find us a share out the information, find the information including links to resources from this and other conversations in our show notes. They can be found at our podcast website at www dot P2Transition dot com, check out our YouTube channel. Now we've done some of the legwork for you by curating videos of topics that revolve around transition. We have playlists, they cover guardianship, alternatives to guardianship ABLE accounts, and there is still more to come. So be sure to subscribe there as well. And then finally, check out our redesigned website. It is chock full of information around the transition process. You can find our contact information there and so much more. So definitely go to www.postsecondarytransition.com. And I think that we can finish out this discussion.

Meghan Smallwood: 33:21

Awesome. Thank you, Meredith.

Patrick Cadigan: 33:22

Thank you, Meredith.

Meredith Gregoire-Cope: 33:23

Thank you.

Patrick Cadigan: 33:24

All right, and we will catch up with you guys soon with more conversations to come. Thanks so much.

Meghan Smallwood: 33:30

Thank you.