Patrick Cadigan: 0:19

Well, once again, I've hit the record button. We are live, so to speak. Boom. Welcome, welcome, welcome. We're here for the Post Secondary Transition podcast where we have conversations around the ins and outs and everything in between of the transition process for families of students with disabilities. I'm one of the hosts. My name is Patrick Cadigan. I'm a public school special education teacher, who is my co host.

Meghan Smallwood: 0:42

I am Meghan Smallwood, and I'm a public school transition coordinator.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:45

All right, and as usual, before we begin, we would like to give our listeners a definition of what exactly it is that we're talking about. So post secondary transition, it really focuses between ages 14 and 21. And really helps answer that question of, What do you want for your child after they leave school? Now we're looking to help answer those questions by asking parents to think long term, like milestones that are ahead of you, the research that you're doing the resources that are available to you the goals that you have,

Meghan Smallwood: 1:17

And how are we define long term? Well, what do you want your child to do after that school bus stops coming? It's different for everybody. And it's a completely individualized experience. But along with that, individuality can come loneliness. And in some cases, a sense of isolation, since it really is a unique experience. But there are other families who are going through this probably at the same time you are.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:40

So along that journey, there's milestones that you need to focus on. Some of those are built around timeframes. Other can be others can be at your own timeframe, when you're comfortable and when you're ready. But using your child's school experiences will really help while doing the research using the resources at your disposal, like your special educator, general education, teachers, school administration, or if supported your school transition specialist and also, don't forget outside agencies. It's a lot of information, there's a lot to consider. In many cases, the answers are not always will not always immediately present themselves. There might be some give, and there might be some take. And there will always be things that you do that might not necessarily have the desired outcome. Now trying to do it all at once can really feel consuming. So we're hoping to clear away some of that fog. So along with clearing away some of that fog we're back again with another interview. Megan, you want to set us up for the discussion today?

Meghan Smallwood: 2:42

Absolutely. And we are super excited for this conversation. Because we are sitting down with Lauren and Britt who are from barrier free a nonprofit organization. And they're going to speak with us about their inclusive programs, which are just fabulous from the genesis of just an idea of implementation and how much they've grown. So without further ado, let's start the conversation. So today, we are fortunate to have Lauren and Britt from barrier free to share a little bit about their program. Thank you so much for joining us.

Britt Burr: 3:21

Yeah, thanks for having us.

Lauren Burr: 3:22

Yes, thank you so much for the invite. We've enjoyed hearing the episodes and are excited to be guests now on the podcast today.

Meghan Smallwood: 3:30

And Patrick and I are so excited about your program. So for those who don't know about it, how about we start with a little bit about each of yourselves and your backgrounds.

Lauren Burr: 3:41

I'm Lauren, as we said, and I'm currently the Executive Director of barrier free. So prior to founding Barrier Free with bread or becoming a part of it, I worked for Montgomery County public schools. So I have a certification in education. And I did kindergarten, second grade, ESOL. I did some pre-K which I know is a big transition now to working with adults. But um...

Meghan Smallwood: 4:08

Yeah, that's a switch.

Lauren Burr: 4:09

Yeah. So that's my previous experience. But then I was working part time doing theater with adults with disabilities, which is where I wound up meeting Britt. And in addition to my degrees in education, I have a certificate graduate certificate in equity and excellence from McDaniel College. And that's me in the nutshell.

Unknown: 4:33

So yeah, my name is Britt. I'm the Creative Director of Barrier Free so my background is in drama therapy. So my undergrad is from McDaniel College. So I have a degree in psychology and theatre. And I was like, How can I marry these together and I found drama therapy and I have my master's degree in that. I have a master's in education. Currently I am getting my doctorate degree fingers crossed, that I can make it to the finish line. So I get, I'm getting my doctorate in leadership with specialization in community organizations and educational leadership. And then I got involved in the disability community in the neurodivergent community by doing internships and undergrad, and doing internships in grad school. And I really found that I loved the community and that I had been surrounded by people that were neurodivergent my entire life and that I loved theater. And I was like, What a great modality to introduce to people that are neurodivergent to help with communication, and competence skills. So I started a theater company. And that's how barrier free first began was just just that singular theatre company. And then it just has grown from there. So...

Meghan Smallwood: 5:46

And I just have to say that the theatre production that you guys just put on was amazing.

Britt Burr: 5:53

Thank you.

Meghan Smallwood: 5:54

I was blown away. I went with Kim Pellegrino, and I saw Lauren there. But it was just, I was just so floored by it all, you guys put in so much hard work, and it shows and I just loved how the personalities of all the individuals in it really shine through.

Britt Burr: 6:10

Yes, yeah. It's incredible. Like you put lights and sound and get them in costumes and, and they just shine. And it's amazing. We absolutely love it. It's funny because Lauren and I joke about this a lot is Barrier Free started, we didn't have all of that. At first it was me in the pit me orchestra. I'm holding a boombox pushing play with for sound effects. And then the lighting was like literally flipping a switch on and off. And people still showed up and they came so we knew we had something that was like really cool to do. But it the bells and whistles weren't there. And And now as we have grown, and we've we've made more community connections, we can put those bells and whistles to really like highlight the performance, which has been really cool. So...

Patrick Cadigan: 6:55

One question that I have is that as I'm hearing you talk about this, did did you want it to grow? Or did it organically just start to grow? And like because there there were so many opportunities that presented themselves?

Britt Burr: 7:09

That's a great question. Yeah, I did want to make more out of it. Yes. Our barrier free started with one participant; his name is Michael Eaton. And he's in class right now. And he is he when I started advertising that I was doing theater program for adults on the autism spectrum. He was the only person that called me. And he would call me every single day. And "Hi, my name is Michael Eaton. My number is 443 . . . and I'm interested in the theater program. And please give me a call back." And then he called me the next day, same time and I was like, eventually I have to call this guy back. I was just waiting for more people to call me. So I had a roster of people to introduce the theatre company to but he was the only one responding. So I had to give him a call back and said, You know, I'm sorry, man, like, I really want to do this. But right now you're the only one that's interested. But if you can bring three buddies next season, I will do it regardless of how many people it is. I'll do it with four people promise you. And he did, he delivered, he brought his friends. And we did a small little barrier free show. There was no music at the time, it was just a play. And we did a show with four people. And it was it was great people turned out for it. Family turned out for it. It was a smaller audience than what we have now. But it was it was really beautiful. And then those people brought people and those people knew people who knew people, and this word of mouth just sort of spread and now we're at waiting lists, five, six years later, so it has been really awesome. And had I had I know what this is? What did I want this to be like this? Yes, I did have the desire for it to be like that. I didn't know how and what the journey would look like. But it I think it's I've been really fortunate and we've been really fortunate with what that journey was and and having that one participant that kind of gave us the directory to do that.

Lauren Burr: 8:58

Yeah, I mean, it's it started with the one and it's spread by word of mouth a lot originally but we also really revamped in 2019.

Britt Burr: 9:06

Yes, yeah.

Lauren Burr: 9:06

So when we transition from barrier free kind of just being independent into obtaining our 501c3 Nonprofit status that was was the whole revamp the the new marketing the website the logo and the initiatives in building Barrier Free it was when we kind of decided to put our all into it because the spark had caught in the fire of Barrier Free was building.

Meghan Smallwood: 9:30

I just I can't believe how how much it's grown for you in that short amount of time.

Britt Burr: 9:35

Yeah, it's pretty, pretty cool.

Patrick Cadigan: 9:38

So one other question that we were thinking about was you guys are located in downtown Sykesville. Did, was there was there a reason why it was in Sykesville versus somewhere else. Was there something particular about Sykesville that attracted you or did it just happen to work out that that's where you went?

Unknown: 9:58

Yeah, so originally our, our theatre company started in Westminster. That's where I'm from and, and that's where I kind of wanted to begin the theatre companies. And I met Lauren doing the same work and ended up moving to Montgomery County. But we still had a lot of a lot of connections in Carroll County. So we wanted to meet halfway there. And we, we found Sykesville. And you can finish that because you like

Lauren Burr: 10:25

Yeah. So so we have programs across Carroll County this part. is the short answer. So our Expressive Arts programs at theatre companies like Britt that are happen in Westminster, at the Westminster Community Center, which is right next to McDaniel College, and then what we call our Life Skills & Social Studio is located in Sykesville. Because it's about 30 minutes from every one that we were starting to serve during the pandemic. So like many organizations, when we went virtual people started coming into our programs that may have otherwise not given it a try because of the distance. So we were starting to pull a lot of folks from Colombia and Baltimore, and the more western sides of Frederick, we alreay had some participants coming from Frederick. So when we wanted to expand our programming and the Life Skills & Social Studio, kind of 30 minutes from everything worked out, well. 30 minutes from where we started in Westminster. 30 minutes from Montgomery County, 30 minutes from Baltimore, Columbia everywhere, and we pull folks from all around as far south as PG County and as far north as into Pennsylvania, Easton to Anna Arundle and Westover to Hagerstown.

Meghan Smallwood: 11:29

Yeah, I was impressed when I was looking at the, the booklet from the play that you had some people from Pennsylvania. I mean, I know it's not that far. But I was like, wow, I didn't even I guess word of mouth. Like just to get people from a different state.

Britt Burr: 11:42

Yeah, I think people will dry like not to toot our own horn. But I think people will drive to to get good services, right? Like, we know, transportation is one of our biggest hurdles. It's like if you ask us what our number one struggle is, it would be transportation, because a lot of our folks don't drive; some do. But some don't. So they have to rely on transportation from family members from public transit, which hasn't been the greatest. And Ubers, Lyfts, those things. carpooling. So it's been really a struggle of how we bridge the gap gap of transportation. But if they can find it, people do make the journey out here. So it's, it's good to see that, but we were constantly battling, how do we make transportation more accessible?

Meghan Smallwood: 12:27

Yeah, and I agree, I feel like your program is just unique, you know, so when word of mouth gets out, and people are like, well, it's not that far. You know, I can do 30 minutes. It's worth it.

Britt Burr: 12:38

Yeah, we do 30 minutes every day, we live 30 minutes from so we do it. But we know we're also fortunate to drive ourselves, right. So a lot of our folks don't. But yeah, we joke that we need to have a barrier free bus that like, that's an honor horizon, just a big bus to schlep people and pick them up and bring them here. And that would be cool, right?

Patrick Cadigan: 13:07

Tell us more about how, how did you decide to structure the program? Like how do you build on it?

Lauren Burr: 13:13

Yeah, so Barrier Free has an assortment of programs. So what happens in downtown Sykesville is what we call our Life Skills & Social Studio. So our folks, our, the neurodivergent adults come here. And they come for what we call a studio session. And the session is three hours long. And we do three components during that session. There's something like skill centered, social skills centered, and then something expressive arts. Now it's all through an integrated arts lens, meaning we're using drama therapy based techniques of acting out real world scenarios using narrative storytelling measures to rehearse scenarios we will encounter in the real world together in our safe space with peers like us. And then a large portion of our program is also going out into the community downtown Sykesville, the larger Carroll County area, extending into other counties, but after we have learned and honed those skills together at the studio, so it's kind of like the skill work needed after you transition out of the school system to navigate your everyday life with greater success and confidence and ease is the overarching goal.

Patrick Cadigan: 14:24

And then so are you able to tailor the activities that you are doing to the group that you know, like the current group that you're working with?

Lauren Burr: 14:33

You're spot on.

Britt Burr: 14:34

Yeah, 100% We do. So each person picks a certain day that works for them a week. And then after a few sessions, we kind of have a network of people that come on certain days. So we have our Tuesday group, we have our Wednesday crew over Friday crew and it's usually the same people, some people ebb and flow back and forth and change days, but usually it's the same core people and that group usually has a need that maybe the Friday group doesn't have. So on the schedule, we will focus on the need that that particular group has, whether that's money management, two way dialogue, it could be going out into the community could be a really big goal for them. Transactions doing like money transactions. So whatever that that works for different people, it will we'll we'll do that.

Lauren Burr: 15:23

A lot of it is through observation. So let's say on Wednesday, we go out in the community, and we go to the ice cream shop. And we notice one person has trouble with navigating what bills to use to pay for their tab, we're like,"Ah, Okay, that's probably something we'll put on the studio schedule next week." Perhaps someone else walks through a door and shuts it in someone else's face. And we're like, "Ah, that's a social etiquette skill we want to hit on next week." So we're constantly observing the needs of our individuals, and then putting the activities on the schedule the next week that everyone can benefit from, but that are immediately hitting those skills that we noticed need just a little bit of shining. And then we will work on those together the next week. So our folks don't realize that it's intentional, it just seems like we're doing our social skill work together. But behind the scenes, when we're making the schedule each week, it is always with the needs of our participants in the forefront. So it's kind of the magical side of things.

Britt Burr: 16:19

And sometimes it really is intentional when we will tell them that. For example, today, we did what's called improv for real life. And our scenario was how to handle getting popcorn, soda, candy, any type of snackages for going to the movies, because we're going to a social outing tomorrow to the movie theater, and having your hands full of all of those things, plus getting your money and making the transactions. Plus having a ticket in your hand and needing to have your ticket ripped, is it's a lot. It's a lot of motor planning. And it's a lot of intentionality. So we practice that today how to put the popcorn in one side, how to hold your Coke and the other and how to have your money in one hand. And to do that efficiently without spilling and we had like real containers full of liquid that we practiced with. And we had real like bags of candy and stuff that we worked with it. So we felt what it felt like to have a cup full of something. So I'm just using empty cups, we filled them up with liquid and we had some spills, but that's why we're practicing. So that's why we do it. And, umm...

Lauren Burr: 17:21

Then we shuffled through the chairs...

Britt Burr: 17:21

Shuffled through the chairs. Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 17:24

And lined them up like the aisles and we sat and you know, watch the movie. And then tomorrow after the studio session, we're doing our once a month social club outing. So we rented a private theater to see the Super Mario movie, and it's going to be a little bit sensory friendly; they leave on low lights for us, they put the volume down a little bit. And it's it's only for our folks. So if they need to stym or move about, it's accessible, but then we'll take those skills, put them into practice tomorrow. Bada bing bada boom.

Britt Burr: 17:52

Yeah, if you think about it, somebody that's neurotypical somebody that doesn't have a neurodivergence, you observe this and you apply it to your life, like you don't realize that you're retaining this information, you're observing the world around you. And that's how we learn, right? But a lot of times, there's a barrier between people that are neurodivergent, and what the what the world is doing. So someone that's neurodivergent doesn't see all of these fine tuned motor planning opportunities. They just say I need to grab my stuff and go sit without knowing that there are steps involved, because there really aren't rules written down for them. It's just a societal rule. And, and no one sat down and informed people that these are what the societal rules are the best way to hold the popcorn and the coke and the money in the ticket. So we break it down for them and make it a learning experience, because we can't have the expectation that they're just going to observe it and retain the information they need to practice it.

Meghan Smallwood: 18:46

That's such a good point. I mean, I just went through that last week, we went to go see the Super Mario movie, and I'm juggling all that and my kids coats and everything else I'm just making do but it makes total sense that I love to to use those real life scenarios to practice with, you know, containers actually full with it, so they can see the cause and effect of it. And you know, what could actually happen? But that kind of ties into what I was going to ask about the activities you do. So did they do your folks pick? Like for example, the movie they want to go see, do they pick the different places they want to go to practice these skills?

Britt Burr: 19:20

They do, yes. So we last year, we saw a movie around this time so we kind of orbit the same themes, but they get to choose within what they want to do and everybody wants to see the Super Mario movie. Everybody's really excited...

Meghan Smallwood: 19:32

Why not right?

Britt Burr: 19:34

Yeah, so and we have Mario tournaments here and have the you know, Super Mario Superstars and Mario Kart, so people love it. And so we're like, alright, that's definitely going to be a social club.

Lauren Burr: 19:44

Yeah, it is also a combo. So sometimes our folks come to us and ask, can we work on a specific skill? So recently, we had someone that obtained a new job and then went in for like a first training shift and was then ghosted, and they said can we work on on what do I do in this situation? Do I reach out? How do I structure that email? What do I say? I don't know. So we had something called professional skills on the street on the studio schedule. And we practiced how to write an email to a supervisor about a concern or question. We've also had situations where parents bring something to us, you know, every single day, I'm struggling with getting my child out of the house on time, they know the tasks that need to happen, but they're just not doing them. And so we'll add something on the studio schedule that perhaps is called scheduling your day. Now, it may not fix every problem right away or every challenge. But you know, some intentionality of the peer learning model where Britt and I want to come across like peers. So sometimes you can hear it from a parent a million times, but then when you have someone in their life, that's like a mentor that steps in, sometimes that can help as well like another support system for the individual and getting those skills to be transferable. So if we work on it here, it's then a visual schedule or a reminder, a model that they're implementing at home that we're sharing with the parents after, so they know how to support them and implementing, because we want the skills to be as transferable as possible.

Britt Burr: 21:16

Yeah, yeah. Transferable skills is the goal, always. And kind of the magic that makes it people always ask us like, what, what, why our program, what's the difference between our program and other other organizations, and we really focus on group dynamics, that is to our core group dynamics. So our folks that come in here, even if you're new, we, we intentionally incorporate them into the group process and make them feel a part of it. We have people that are our seasoned veterans that are trained to that energy nor divergent themselves that are trained to take other people that are new under their wing and really show them things so they don't feel like the outsider coming in. Because that's scary even for someone that is neurotypical let alone neurodivergent you're already dealing with the anxiety and all of that of coming into a new space. So that's kind of our intention is always group process. And like Lauren said, the peer model is, is because we want to be successful, because our friends are helping us to, like our friends are there with us, we want to like show our friends how good we can be. It's not just showing mom and dad because mom and dad will love us no matter what, hopefully, right? But it's more of, I want to do this because this is cool. This is a cool thing to do. I am being independent I am, if we can get somebody that is working on their independence, even getting a little bit better than they were a year ago. That's success in our eyes, we don't expect everybody to be on the same level. But definitely, if you're you know, you're coming in here, you can see me you're coming in here, and we want you to get a little higher and, and see see how successful you can be for your own your own self.

Meghan Smallwood: 22:55

Yeah. Yeah, you bring up such a good point, though, about friends. You know, I mean, I think when they're leaving the school system, the focus is on what are they going to do for a job? What are they going to do? You know, where are they going to go work or volunteer, whatever. But then they get past some parents, like my one friend who goes to your program, and they want to know, like, what their social groups gonna be? Who are they going to hang out with? That's so important to you, they have this group, and they were in the school that they got accustomed to, and that was their buddies. And now everyone's kind of parted ways. So it's just so important for them to have that outlet to do things and to see the modeling from and just be an adult and have hanging out time.

Britt Burr: 23:37

And part of being an adult is you know, having a job and we will never downplay having a job, right? We think that is great. That is wonderful. That is That means you're really on your way. But well, a lot of times what we see is, when people come out of, you know, high school, it's always like, gotta get a job, gotta get a job, got a job. And while we support that, I definitely think that is something that should be added, there should be a social skills component to that. And the social skills component doesn't come with the job. Because sometimes a lot of our folks, this is what we work on here at the studio, is they think that their coworkers are also their friends, r

Meghan Smallwood: 24:15

Right.

Britt Burr: 24:15

And they don't understand social dynamics that happen in the workplace. And they don't understand why their boss might be ghosting them, or they don't understand why their hours are getting cut. Or they don't understand why they keep on losing jobs. And they have to keep applying, applying, applying. And then they'll reach out and be like, can you help me apply for a job? Okay, we can help you apply for a job, but how are you going to retain that job. We need to work on some skills here and do those in tandem, not just do them once, and then hopefully, you'll be on your way, like tandem program. So we love that our folks, a lot of our folks do have jobs, but they still come here at the same time and work on these skills that they can then apply into their jobs, transferable skills, that this is something that we're working on, and we want them to be happy like you mentioned, you know how Having a social like social friends and stuff, you think of neurotypical people, it's kind of sad, we wake up, and we go to work. And we come home, and we sleep. And we wake up and we do it again. And that's, that's sad. It's boring, right? Well, not fulfilling, like, are you happy doing that? Like, we're not, we're not happy doing that. And we want people that are divergence to be happy, as well. And that happens with social life. So plugging having a job, while it is a good marker of success, so is being happy and having friends, right?

Meghan Smallwood: 25:33

Absolutely, you need that balance, for sure.

Lauren Burr: 25:35

And to piggyback off when parents come to us. So the Life Skills & Social Studio is their group programs. But we do also do what we call skill coaching, where sometimes, yes, we can work with somebody in the group, but they need targeted individualized support as well. So it's similar to a personal supports idea, like you would see an agency or a DDA provider, similar concept. But with a we can hone in on just like one specific skill that needs work. We support folks with like navigating dating, how to determine if I'm being flirty, or if I'm being creepy, how do I meet people, what's an appropriate way to, to let somebody know that I like them, or ask them on a date and navigate those processes, we do have a class that we do once a year to support those skills to call dating while neurodiverse. But then paired with skill coaching, we work with folks in like their independent living situations, if a barrier free, were not add a service provider, so we can be included in self direct plans. But we also serve a lot of folks that fall in that that gray area of not being eligible for DDA services. So they don't have the opportunity to have personal support. So the family may want to pay out of pocket or through SSI, or through a transition scholarship for some targeted work with one of us as well. And that's paired with the group programs so that our individuals have connected with us in that mentoring ships with peers, and then by the time we get to the one on one work, it's still that mentor relationship versus another parental figure instructing them on what to do.

Britt Burr: 27:16

Yeah, so the root of it is trust. So we wouldn't go right into a one on one skill coaching without having worked with them in a group and then trusting us first, we sometimes get calls from parents, like, hey, I want them to work on this, but they don't have time for the group stuff. You're just like, well, then it's not going to work. Like it's just, it won't, it will not work, because they're gonna see us as some sort of authority figure telling another authority figure telling them what to do, instead of coming into the group programming and learning the group process and going with us through that journey together, and then they're like, you know, we'll be really cool. So I've worked with Britton and Lauren, one on one, because I've seen them in a group and I like it posted just a stranger, another stranger telling you what to do.

Meghan Smallwood: 27:58

And you brought up a good point, you are not a DDA day program. I think that's important to note too, because you're just so ebb and flow.

Lauren Burr: 28:07

Yeah, ebb and flow and then it's just a part time skill program. So folks are going to their part time jobs. Some of our folks are attending community college classes, or those continuing education classes that happened at community colleges or they're navigating internships or learning to dry on their their other pieces in their day that happened.

Meghan Smallwood: 28:35

So out of all that, what is each of your favorite part of the job? I know, a loaded question.

Britt Burr: 28:43

It's a great question. I love a lot of it. I think my favorite parts are the theatre companies, which is not necessarily a part of the studio program. So that's a separate evening program that happens from September to March. So I love that because that's, that's our roots. I love anything that's grounded in theatre practices, we can use theatre for almost anything to rehearse real life scenarios. And then I do I do like talking about dating. And I love working with people that want to date and they just are struggling with the concept of of, you know, texting etiquette, and all of that. I like it because the world around them is surrounded with it. And I can understand how frustrating it can be to not understanding not understanding why it's not working, if they're doing all the quote unquote, right things. And really breaking it down. Making it very black and white, the areas of dating. Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 29:38

You're really good at both of those because yeah, your creative side shines.

Britt Burr: 29:42

Yeah, we can use theater for that too, which is amazing. Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 29:46

My favorite part is undoing some of the trauma that our folks have been through trauma in attempting to have friendships that fall apart or in some situations there is some school trauma, you know, we would love for every school experience And to be be wonderful and pleasant. But some of our folks have been have not had that. Or we've had trauma with family members and in difficult relationships and to expose our folks to a safe space where, hey, maybe not every model or circumstance that you've seen is, is the reflection of the entire world. So let's, let's have a new environment, and a new opportunity to learn skills and to see some of those, those moments of aha come together when they realize, oh, yeah, I'm here to make friends, I get why we're doing this. We saw it just the other day, we do a lot of cooking projects, because there's a plethora of life skills involved. But we always talked about how our cooking projects combine life skills and social skills. Because we are communal cooking, we're all working on the same recipe. So each person might not be doing every single step of the recipe, one person may be peeling carrots, while the other one is mincing the garlic while another is chopping the celery. And so we're socializing while we do it. And we had a participant that's been with us for about eight months, and then someone who was on their their third time with us. And the new participant kept asking, you know, why not? Well, what else are we doing today? Like, are we cooking and it's not good. She wasn't enjoying the moment. She just wanted to know what else was coming. And our veteran was like, "Hey, we're socializing while we cook. Don't you want to talk to me?" And I was like,"Oh, my gosh, it's it's all coming together." Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 31:30

I love it.

Lauren Burr: 31:32

So they're, they're guiding one another, and we don't have to do those those reconnection?

Britt Burr: 31:38

Yeah, Laura and I both work individually with two different people that have jobs downtown, we have great partnerships downtown in Sykesville. And undoing the trauma of what going into the workforce looks like for someone that's neurodivergent is, is we really have worked with both of these individuals. And we've worked with people downtown. And we have have und dundun undun, undun. That's not a word. Undone the trauma. We have a you know, we had to do some rewiring of what it means to be on the job, because jobs are very anxiety producing, especially for the individuals here that have been let go to several jobs, and they don't understand why they're being let go. And Lauren and I are walking them through the process of celebrating your neurodiversity, and being able to utilize that in the workforce.

Lauren Burr: 32:29

Yeah, two shops are so one is Jen Banks who owns Tidal Salt, and one is Hannah Brookfield who owns BotaniGal. And they've both wanted to build these job partnerships with us, specifically for the purposes of being conducive workplaces. And we know that they're their shops in town, it's an it's a model that we would like to extend to other shops and opportunity. We have another meeting set up with Lee, who owns the Band Shop in downtown Sykesville. Next Friday, about extending job partnerships with him too. So we definitely want to shout out those business owners that are taking the steps with us to build intentional job opportunities for folks. Yeah, that's

Patrick Cadigan: 33:06

awesome. And then do you find the business owners get it? Or do you have to kind of explain it to them like this is this is what we're doing? And this is this is the direction that we're going in?

Meghan Smallwood: 33:18

Or if they'd gotten to know them, I know you you guys frequent the area. So it just like over time, they really gotten to know these individuals and kind of learned as we go.

Britt Burr: 33:28

Yeah, I think I think it's that. I think they've gotten to know us a little bit. Yeah,

Lauren Burr: 33:32

They've seen how we interact with our folks when we come into the stores and are guiding them. You know, it's been fortunate because Jen and Hannah from Tidal Salt have have done a lot of work and engaging with our folks and taking the time to have conversations and get to know them on a first name basis. So, you know, you'll always find people that are more inherently driven and naturals almost in interacting with the neurodivergent community and others that need a little bit more guidance. So it's something that we'd like to just develop for the town of Sykesville. There's also a new Justice Equity Diversity Inclusion Committee for downtown Sykesville that Britt and I are a part of that includes community members, some shop owners. And so starting the work with that committee as well to hopefully build additional inclusive workplaces in the town is the ideal but baby steps. We're very passionate about healthy growth, we want to make sure that there's a quality control that what we are advertising meets what is actually happening.

Britt Burr: 34:33

Yeah, very, very passionate about a healthy Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 34:33

Yeah. growth. Because we we could grow and we certainly have shown that we do have the capacity to grow, but we want to make sure that we're doing it right. And we have the right people for for the job. And I think in terms of jobs, why? I think some people are scared, they don't know how to work with people that are divergent. And just I think it's about educating, like, what's it about and it's also about educating our folks too. about how to advocate for themselves and their needs, right now we're trying to fit them into a neurotypical box. And when they go into a workforce, and it's more about, hey, maybe, you know, letting these these qualities shine, and being able to communicate with Lauren and myself has also been benefit, too. So if, if Hannah or Jen, who are the owners, Tidal Salt, and BotaniGal, have any problems, they know that we are the direct contact, and we can work on those things before it's an instant ghosting situation or a firing or, you know, pink slip type thing? Yeah... Again, it's that trust? Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 35:37

We try to minimize the work on them. So initially, Jen, or Hannah would meet with Britt or I, depending on who was the skill coach for the individual kind of talk about, you know, what are the strengths? What are the areas where I can support and then the individuals that we work with are in the conversation as well. And but then it's kind of you know, they they go on their own. So, Britt or I will maybe stop in at the beginning or the end of a shift in the event that the shop owner wants to talk to us right then and there. So it's not another email on their plate or another request for a meeting, knowing that we are available, should they want that additional support, but that's kind of the the minimizing the work on their parts...

Britt Burr: 36:15

Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 36:15

...partnership that we kind of pop in, like, "Hey, good to go? All right." And if not, we'll chat and...

Britt Burr: 36:22

Yeah, with the goal of only being benefit to the shop owner never like an extra task that they have to then do. That is we're passionate about that. So a lot of times when people want to hire people with disabilities, it becomes a lot of communication tasks. And that's a job within and of itself, a lot of email, texting, calling about the employee. And we want to minimize that, like, we want to make sure that you were you especially small, small business, make sure that you're just doing your job, and we're a benefit to your company.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:50

Right. No one's doing anyone favors. We're here to have a working relationship.

Patrick Cadigan: 36:54

So then, of course, that is going to segue right into what is we've talked about the best parts of the job, what are the most challenging parts of the job?

Britt Burr: 37:04

I think we talked on transportation.

Lauren Burr: 37:08

Always. Yeah, because we know that families do a lot for transportation. So we're in Carroll County, the options are limited. So some of our folks do use what's called the Carrol Transit System door to door service. So it's a bus that can pick them up from where they live in, bring them to Sykesville. But depending on the distance, that can only happen at certain times of day, and those don't exactly line up always with our our studio sessions. So then that begs the question of independence level to, you know, go to a place in town like the local coffee shop to spend some time or whether there's staffing early to be with somebody. And then it doesn't cross county lines. There used to be a circulator bus called the Trailblazer that connected Carroll County, but the Carroll Transit System decided to cut the southern part... The Sykesville line. And we've had

Britt Burr: 38:01

The Sykesvile line. communications with them about that and the impact to our folks and getting here but some backwards progress. Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 38:09

With that..

Britt Burr: 38:10

So the Sykesville line runs just in Sykesville, but it doesn't interconnect to Westminster, which is the hub where... they cut it completely completely, yeah.

Lauren Burr: 38:18

They scaled it back. So they're, they're like small routes throughout Carroll County. And then there was a hub connector in Westminster. And the first scale back was they cut off the South Carroll... That's right, yeah....line from the hub of Westminster. So South Carroll

Britt Burr: 38:29

Complelety. just did its own little circle. And now they've cut the South

Lauren Burr: 38:34

That was difficult, Carroll Circulator bus completely.

Britt Burr: 38:39

Very challenging.

Lauren Burr: 38:40

But you know, we have parents that work it out one day, a week, ours are multiple days, but you know, at least one day a week. So our sessions are kind of non standard times. They're either from 3 to 6pm, on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or we have 12 to 6pm. On Tuesday, Thursday, some folks come all day from 12 to six are what we consider all day. Some come from 12 to 3, and some come from 3 to 6. So more often it's figuring out how to get someone there picking up after a 9-to-5 job is a little bit easier with the 6:00 end. And so we do have a number of folks that take an Uber or a Lyft to get to the studio and then parents will pick up after...

Britt Burr: 39:20

Yeah.

Lauren Burr: 39:20

...it's always a challenge.

Meghan Smallwood: 39:23

Transportation is always always an issue. It seems unfortunately,

Lauren Burr: 39:27

And then, if, it's speaking transparently, sometimes it can be hard to navigate parents expectations for their child's future and the pace at which that future can be obtained. And the reality of the situation. Breaking that down that perhaps what you what a parent perceives as a five year plan is a 15 year plan. It can also be challenging to help families navigate services so many of our kids do private pay for barrier free one or two days a week but and then they may not be eligible for DDA services due to what DDA has has deemed their eligible eligibility. Yeah, so helping them navigate other subsidies like SSI and HUD and transition scholarships. We joke that we've learned more in the last two years since opening the studio than we have our entire lives.

Britt Burr: 40:20

Yes, we have, like eight degrees between us two. And we've learned more in the past two years, just doing this and we have in our entire schooling, it's insane.

Lauren Burr: 40:29

And I'm sure you feel that way, too, as, as ......was so passionate about transition and

Meghan Smallwood: 40:32

Yep. And the information to get going through that probably was super helping families navigate. And that's why we think this podcast is such an amazing resource, but ummm, so in addition to doing Barrier Free, I took the DDA support broker certification helpful just to understand, yeah. just to try to learn more about how to help these families. Now, I can't support broke for Barrier Free families, because It's a lot to navigate. And we know we are talking to it's considered a conflict of interest. So I don't actually support broke, but it was another credential. passionate people, in that respect. It is.

Patrick Cadigan: 41:11

That then segues into the next question that I have is that, how do you get the word out? Like, yeah, how do you get the word out?

Lauren Burr: 41:20

It's a mix. So I'm, I, I run our website and social media built it from scratch to try to save money and in any way possible, being a nonprofit. So working on our Google Search Optimization was a huge initiative of mine early on, and not to toot our own horns. But we rank pretty high if you search Disability Services near me, Disability Services in Maryland, so that we pull a lot of people from Google now. And a lot of people from social media, because when folks come and do the the new member intakes, we ask, there's a question, How did you find us? So Google is our number one, social media and then word of mouth is a really big one.

Britt Burr: 42:01

With a small, small county, it's still a big thing. Because we definitely, we get it now. It's which is kind of cool. Because eight years ago, no one knew what it was. And now people are very free. I think I've heard of that. Like, that's cool

Lauren Burr: 42:13

Yeah, I think the community... to hear. Like it really, it amazes me every time, or we were just at, like a restaurant the other day, and someone saw the logo, like I think I've seen you somewhere that we love that. But like Lauren's being modest, she has been amazing at like, like making us shine like I am the creative person. And I can do things. Lauren's creative too. But Lauren has, like, the executive skills that Lauren has. I'm not just saying this, because we were my spouse. It's been amazing. Just being able to constant social media presence, being able to you're constantly updating the website, you're constantly thinking of other ways to get our name out there. You're making the business connections and really, really getting community connections involved. I think that's a big one is networking.

Britt Burr: 42:59

The community is huge, yeah.

Lauren Burr: 43:01

...when we had amazing partnership with the Carroll Art Center. So we go to a lot of their galleries. They have pockets of funding from Arts for Learning, Maryland, where they're able to offer performance opportunities to underserved communities. So we're invited to go attend performances for free, sometimes. We participate in community events with our folks, not just Britt and I, like we go out and we have tables. I saw your Mario at the peep show. It was awesome. I voted for you.

Britt Burr: 43:28

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's because of the movie. We're all excited to see it.

Lauren Burr: 43:32

We want to be in the community at every turn as much as possible with our folks. That's the purpose community integration. But with the skill learning, wrote back to where we were talking earlier. We also have really great connection with some community leaders. So Mayor Link of Sykesville is like our biggest fan. She's out in downtown Sykesville all the time and comes running up to our folks. So they it's the coolest thing ever when they're like, Yeah, I'm friends with the mayor. And I just love that. And she's such a champion for visibility and Mayor Becker in Westminster. His, his was a guest in one of our shows. So just community leaders showing the inclusion piece, and just being out there with doing us being us wearing our gear. Everybody's always in there barrier free shirts and hats and backpacks and...

Britt Burr: 44:22

Being just unapologetically us, you know. I think that's important. It's a lot of it's a lot of grassroots, but you know, you got to start somewhere. And we were really proud of the work that we both have done.

Meghan Smallwood: 44:35

I will say I was talking to one of our directors, a special ed for our county and she's like, I was eating Beck's one day and it came out and there's this group of individuals and I kind of just followed them down the road and I saw they went into this place called Barrier Free. I was like let me tell you about Barrier Free. Oh my gosh, I didn't even know so it was it was cool that she was just in her community but also you know a huge part of our County and, you know, that our programs that ultimately transition to something like Barrier Free or barrier free. And so it was just kind of cool.

Britt Burr: 45:08

I like that she followed us.

Meghan Smallwood: 45:10

I know she's, she wants to, but he was just like I was just kind of curious to see where they were going and they were just having fun. Out enjoying, you know, main street and they went to somewhere called Barrier Free, I was like

Lauren Burr: 45:21

Yeah, love it. We love being right on Main Street, Yeah... like literally in the heart. So can't beat that.

Meghan Smallwood: 45:29

Yeah.

Patrick Cadigan: 45:29

I remember when we were doing the interview with Pam Paris where I had heard about you guys for the first time. Now keep in mind that there was actually a whole other conversation that we had after we had stopped recording. And I remember talking to Pam and just saying like, why don't I know about this? Like, this is literally like right around the corner from my house? Like what's going on? Yeah. So like you said, getting out there community connections, like learn. And now it's like, once you hear it, you start, it's almost like you start to see it more often. And when I was when we did the Transition Fair for Carroll County, it was like looking over the space. And I'm like, hey, I know those guy's.

Lauren Burr: 46:08

gonna swing by and see our space and meet our folks since you're so close.

Britt Burr: 46:19

Yeah, it's it's funny that people will ask us what we do on the weekends. And we're just like, Barrier Free guys. They're like, Wait, it wasn't open like No, no, like you don't understand. Like, there's a business side of barrier free. We got to run books and get update websites, we got to do posts, we gotta send emails, we got to do all of these, these business things.

Meghan Smallwood: 46:37

It's non-stop.

Lauren Burr: 46:40

You said, you know, you want to know why we do it. Sometimes it can be a hard question to answer. Sometimes we joke that like, why do we do this? Our whole existence, but we just love every second. And I think recently we've come to, you know, neurodivergent folks, they have their special interests, I think our special interests are human dynamics. And so we're here to spread the love and plethora of knowledge about human dynamics to folks that need it broken down. But we're also very passionate about building a new, unique model. There's a reason why people are moving away from some of the traditional models, and we have to innovate, and we have to grow as a society over time. And folks are looking for ways to to continue their skill learning beyond school, that maybe not in an environment where it's happening all day, they just want a little part time additional learning, and an opportunity to be with friends with folks that want to guide them through the world. So we've been in organizations that have had cracks and organizations where folks haven't been heard where we haven't been heard when proposing innovative and new ideas and been told like, You're crazy, that's never gonna work. We're kinda here to say, well call us crazy, because it's working.

Britt Burr: 47:53

And now more of these models are popping up, right? So we weren't crazy. We were just I guess ahead of it. Because I remember having these exact thoughts, there's slots everything and under different an organization or a different agency or something. And I'm just like, what we did it this way. Like, this is not what these people need, that they are clearly communicating with you that they want something else. And it wasn't being listened to. And I was like, Well, what if we tried it? Like, what if I tried it? No one's listening to me either. What if I tried it this way, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But at least we know. And guess what it works. So we're gonna keep doing it. And and our goal is to be better Lauren and I are constantly self reflecting of how we can be better leaders, how we can educate ourselves more and more. And and that starts with listening to what people want.

Lauren Burr: 48:41

Yeah. And it started during the pandemic. So we mentioned Barrier Free started with the theatre companies. But during the pandemic, we started offering social skills classes, that were just combining that the togetherness on zoom with a little bit of learning with a little bit of drama, like drama therapy techniques, and our classes were filling to waiting lists. And I know what waiting list on Zoom, that sounds silly, but it still had to be a conducive environment to have conversations. We didn't want it to be a seminar 50 people. And then during the pandemic, we started holding like parent townhall meetings saying like, what do you want to see coming out of shutdowns during COVID. And a lot of it was friendships a place to have friends and learn skills. So in combination with the waiting lists, from classes with parent feedback with our backgrounds, we opened the life skills and social studio kinda figured it out from there and built it with our folks input and what they wanted to do. And yeah...

Britt Burr: 49:36

Yeah, we always welcome feedback after each class after each theater season, after each social outing. We always, you know, send out surveys to participants like How was this for you and they fill that out? We have that we check in with parents like what more do you want to see? And we our team, we have, you know, team meetings with them. We meet with them individually to like, what more do you want to see? How can we be better? How can we all as a team be better? Because we want we want to be better?

Meghan Smallwood: 50:05

Well, I think you guys are amazing. Yeah, we we really appreciate taking the time out of your busy schedules, because we know you have a lot going on with all this. You're dealing, but just to share the greatness of your program. And just, you know, your thoughts on everything. It's just so inspiring, I think.

Lauren Burr: 50:22

Yeah. And thank you guys for listening and for doing your jobs as well and your passion. And...

Britt Burr: 50:27

We really appreciate you guys spending time with us.

Patrick Cadigan: 50:30

The conversation that we had was absolutely worth it.

Meghan Smallwood: 50:33

Oh, my gosh, yes.

Patrick Cadigan: 50:34

We we really do appreciate it.

Meghan Smallwood: 50:43

Well, that was just awesome. I think there was just so much information that they had to share. It's yeah,

Patrick Cadigan: 50:49

They're really cool people.

Meghan Smallwood: 50:51

Yes.

Patrick Cadigan: 50:52

Like that was a great conversation. I really enjoyed...

Meghan Smallwood: 50:54

I think they're just so inspiring. And I can't wait to see how much more Barrier Free grows, because I know they'll continue to do great things.

Patrick Cadigan: 51:02

I think one thing that I can genuinely say as is it that I don't know what I was expecting in terms of the conversation that we were going to have, but they just it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed that.

Meghan Smallwood: 51:13

Thank you again, Lauren and Britt, we appreciate it.

Patrick Cadigan: 51:15

Yeah. Thanks, guys. But before we let everybody go, we wanted to jump in and share our one of our helpful resources for our Well, That's Helpful. So for this week, we wanted to share out ThinkCollege.net. Now ThinkCollege provides information on post secondary education programs for students with intellectual disability. But this is for around the country like this is for anybody who needs it. The site has tons of information and links to support parents when trying to look for information about colleges, and what they offer for students with disabilities. From their own website they say,"That because these programs use an alternative admission process, the standard things often asked for in college admission process, like a diploma test scores, grades do not apply. But things like desire to go to college, wanting to live more independently and get a job after college will be important." So this is a great resource for families and we wanted to share it out if you didn't already know about it.

Meghan Smallwood: 52:14

Yeah, and I think it's a great option for our families with students on the certificate track who really would like for their young adult to have that college experience at the same time. Get that those functional skills and prepare for life beyond school. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you, again, everyone for joining us. As always, we really, really encourage that you follow the information from This and our other conversations that we've had in our show notes. Make sure to like follow and please share out the podcast with anyone that you know who might be getting ready to go through the transition process is in the midst of it even has gone through it and just wants to you know, brush up on information or have anything to share with us. Check out our YouTube channel, we have videos of all our conversations, including doing some of the legwork for you by creating videos of topics that revolve around transition. We've created playlists that cover guardianship, alternatives to guardianship ABLE accounts, and still more to come. So be sure to subscribe there as well. And of course, check out our website, which is chock full of information around the transition process. You'll find our contact information there and we love hearing from you all. So please go to www.post secondarytransition.com. And I think that's all I got.

Patrick Cadigan: 53:34

I think that is all she wrote. All right. We will catch up with everyone again in about two weeks. And I'm trying to remember Meghan, I think next time we're going to discuss SSI. Didn't we...

Meghan Smallwood: 53:45

I think it was something along those lines. So yeah, well, we'll get it sorted out.

Patrick Cadigan: 53:50

We will dive into that. But all right. We look forward to talking with you guys again.

Meghan Smallwood: 53:55

All right. Thanks, everyone.

Patrick Cadigan: 53:57

Bye bye.

Meghan Smallwood: 53:58

Bye.