Patrick Cadigan: 0:20

So once again, I believe that I have hit the record button. That means we can start talking. My name is Patrick Cadigan. I'm a public school special education teacher, who is my co host, who is with me.

Meghan Smallwood: 0:33

My name is Meghan Smallwood, and I am a public school transition coordinator. And welcome, we're here for PE to transition or Post Secondary Transition, where we discuss the ins and outs and everything in between of the transition process for families of students with disabilities.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:49

And in order for us to do that, we need to define what it is that we're talking about. So post-secondary transition, it focuses between the ages of 14 through 21, and really helps answer that question of what do you want for your child after they leave school? We're looking to help answer that question by asking parents to think long term milestones, research of resources, the goals you have.

Meghan Smallwood: 1:16

Right. And how do we define long term? Well, ultimately, what do you want your child to be doing after that school bus stops coming? That's different for everyone. And it's it's completely individualized experience. But along with that individuality can come from loneliness, and in some cases, a sense of isolation, because it's really just a unique experience. But there are other families who are going through this probably at the same time you are.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:42

And along that journey, there's milestones that you need to focus on. Some of those are built around timeframes. Others can be at your own timeframe when you're comfortable, and you're ready. But using your child's school experiences will really help while doing the research using the resources at your disposal, such as your school transition specialist, or other teachers. And that is imperative. It is it is a lot of information, there is a lot to consider. And in many cases, the answers will not always immediately present themselves over there, there's probably going to have to be some give and take. And there will be things that you can do, or there will be things that you do that may not have the desired outcome and trying to do all of it at once can feel really consuming. So we're hoping to help clear away some of that fog. In line with clearing away some of that fog, we are back on track. I know that the last time that we had planned to sit down to do a recording, life, life just happened.

Meghan Smallwood: 2:47

Got in the way.

Patrick Cadigan: 2:47

Got in the way. However, we were able to get back on track. And we have an interview that we think that everybody will be really interested in. We will be introducing and talking with Jamie Brodnax, who is for all, she is a Coordinator of Community Service, which I'm sure that you have heard us talk about mentioned a million times, but she's going to talk to us about how she sees the process and how she how she works to help families. So we're really excited to do this interview. All right, Ms. Meghan, you ready?

Meghan Smallwood: 3:27

I am ready.

Patrick Cadigan: 3:28

All right, let's do it. We're here with Jamie Brodnax. She is what essentially comes down and she is a coordinator of community service. Right? She is correct. She is outside of the school system. And she works. Well. You know what, I'm not even going to do this long introduction that no one would understand. Anyway, I'm gonna let you introduce yourself. Why don't we start with what is your what is because a little bit of background that Jamie and I had worked together in the public school system. I was a teacher and she was a pair educator. How long did you do that before?

Jamie Brodnax: 4:14

I was with the school system from 2015 to 2021. So six-ish years,

Patrick Cadigan: 4:22

And then and then you transitioned out and now you are out in the private sector. So but that was that was where we got to know each other, right? Like, as a teacher, you were a para. So tell us a little bit, tell us a little bit about what you do?

Jamie Brodnax: 4:38

Well, like you said, I am a coordinator of community service. And basically what I do is just support individuals in meeting whatever they have decided is their successful life. I support them and building their individualized plan that identifies needs, the supports and services that we can use to address those needs. And their personal goals, both short term and long term?

Patrick Cadigan: 5:10

One, one question that I have that I'm thinking, okay, so if you were to be introduced to a family who knew nothing about this process, who didn't, you know, they were coming, they were as green, they're essentially as green as I am. From the way that I see it. How would you, how would you define your job for that?

Jamie Brodnax: 5:33

I, I would like to say that I will be their go to person, I am there to support them, not just with accessing DDA services, although that's my primary role, but with accessing any kind of support or services that they need, as they're exiting the school system and for the remainder of their life.

Meghan Smallwood: 5:56

Is it fair to say then, because a lot of times parents will ask me, "Well, what's the coordinator do?" And I'll be like, "they're kind of your middleman DDA" Is that a fair statement? Okay.

Jamie Brodnax: 6:06

Absolutely.

Patrick Cadigan: 6:07

So one of the questions that I have, and this is probably more on a personal note, but this is always something that's been interested, interesting for me to think about; did your experiences in the public school system kind of inform what it is that you do now?

Jamie Brodnax: 6:24

Completely. You know, I had personal experiences prior to working in the school system that really introduced me to the special needs population, and the needs that weren't being met. And then working within the school system, it gave me the background information, but it always kind of left me feeling like there was something more like what happens next, with all of this work that we're doing? What is it for? Where where are these individuals going to use that? How are we benefiting their lives? And that brought me to this position, where now I see all of those things being put into place?

Patrick Cadigan: 7:11

If you could articulate it, how would you say that your job, how does your job benefit families? Look, what did they have to look forward to when they work with someone like you,

Jamie Brodnax: 7:22

They are not alone. I am, I don't want to say I'm the only person that will be a part of their team that is 100% for the individual that I support. But I am definitely 100% for the individual I support, I will be advocating for them and their needs, and doing whatever I can to ensure that they have the support that they need to be happy and safe and successful. I would like to think that that brings some comfort to families just to know that they're not the ones that are going to have to find all of this information on their own, or answer all the questions by themselves. Or if there's a problem, they have to figure out how to fix it. That's just not true when you have a coordinator with you.

Patrick Cadigan: 8:08

Well, okay. And so that actually leads into another interesting question that I have is let's say that a family comes to you and they have a question that you don't know the answer to how do you how do you find that information? Like, what what resources do you use?

Jamie Brodnax: 8:21

A lot of...a lot of different resources. I have resources that DDA provides, I have resources that my own coordinating agency provides. And then a lot of just time spent researching myself, collecting resources, collecting information, putting together lists and files that I can access at a later point. You know, when when a question or something does come up, that I don't immediately know, I'm going to look for it wherever I can.

Meghan Smallwood: 8:51

So, it's so funny, because I always, or parents will ask me to like, well, what's the difference between the coordinator and like the transition specialist at school? Now, I'm like, well, that's a good question. Because we're both like working towards the same goal. But whereas the transition specialist has a lot of other things tied to the county, you know, IEPs and worksites, and things like that the coordinator, is there, just planning for your life and solely playing like focused on that. So I always try to remind parents like you need to put your trust in them. And I think a lot of them get nervous just because, elephant in the room, there's a huge turnover.

Jamie Brodnax: 9:31

Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 9:31

And they were afraid of, you know, trusting somebody so much, and then they're gone. And then a new one comes and they're brand new, and they want to learn and then they're gone. So that has been a huge frustration. I know from parents, and I'm sure you've seen it too with your agency.

Jamie Brodnax: 9:47

Yeah, absolutely. I like to think of, you know, a coordinator and then the school transition specialist, kind of as a tag team where you get them up to that finish line. We work together for a show For a period of time, and then they're ready to, you know, transition over to just working with me. Like you said, there is a lot of turnover and it does take trust, you know, we're talking about things that can be sensitive, we're also talking about their loved ones entire future. That's a big deal. And unfortunately, not everybody takes it as a big deal. So I think it's important for coordinators, and I'm sure you would say, for Transition Specialists to, to let the families know that we do know that it's a big deal, and we're here to support them with that.

Meghan Smallwood: 10:33

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think it's great when we're able to collaborate. And there's been some really good coordinators that I've had over the years for families, and we really worked well together to prep them for the exit. And then I know they're in good hands when they leave. But then the other thing is to like, if there's topics like you said, there's sensitive topics that many don't want to think about at 1820 leg, let's say what happens when the parent is gone. And I might try to broach that topic, but they're not ready to hear it. So the coordinator who's you know, along the journey, by the time they're 23 - 24, maybe the parent ready, is, is ready to talk about it then. And you know, then the coordinators, they're ready to help support them. So it's just it's your right, it's just such a journey, I think that the coordinator is along with them, and they're there for the long haul. So...

Patrick Cadigan: 11:21

One, one question that I have, why is there a turnover?

Meghan Smallwood: 11:25

It's a great question!

Jamie Brodnax: 11:26

That's a loaded question. I mean, I would say that across the board, there's a lot of turnover for a couple of different reasons, quite frankly, COVID had a huge impact on that, it me not only my role, but the roles of the providers and the direct support staff a lot more difficult, because there are so many changes that are happening, sometimes on a daily basis. It can be frustrating. And it's not for everyone, not everybody has the capability or the desire to be in a position that is going to be changing every single day. It's also it can be a lot of pressure to be in the position to have that support role and knowing that you're carrying a lot of weight for families, and they you know, they have a lot invested in you doing a good job, you know, not saying that other coordinators don't do a good job or that I do a great job, but it's just that you have to be dedicated to your position, and providing the support that you say you're gonna provide, because they need that help. That's why they're here.

Meghan Smallwood: 12:33

Yeah, the follow through is very important. Can I ask, how many families do you support? Or individuals do you support?

Jamie Brodnax: 12:41

It varies. So typically, I'm within 30 to 50.

Meghan Smallwood: 12:48

Oh, wow,

Jamie Brodnax: 12:48

It could go up or down based off of turnover? Just how many students are transitioning each year? There's of course, the waiting list. So as individuals are joining the waiting list, or coming off the waiting list, things fluctuate.

Meghan Smallwood: 13:04

And I'm sure there's like a range of levels of support with each individual to like some you're probably checking in because they've been established and others really need that handholding. Absolutely.

Patrick Cadigan: 13:24

So, you've probably touched on this already to some degree or another. But what would you if you were to articulate the biggest benefits of your job? How would you what would you say that those are? Relate or, or put it put it a different way? What what are the what are the things about your job that you like,

Jamie Brodnax: 13:43

Um, well, coming from the school system and having a long history of working with children, I really do enjoy the transition process. It's one of my favorite roles in my job. I like that start to finish and knowing that I am supporting someone in building a plan that is going to follow them for the rest of their lives. I also really like the interactions that I have with individuals that I support, and their teams. It's you know, it's fun and different and big, like we talked about earlier, every day is different. And that's something that I look for in a position. You know, today I might be sitting in front of the computer all day, tomorrow, I may be out in the community meeting individuals at their work locations or at their data centers. I may go meet an individual at their home and get to meet their family and really have the opportunity to learn about them and what's important to them. And those are all things that are important to me just that direct interaction and expanding my experiences.

Patrick Cadigan: 14:53

All right. So of course if I'm going to go on the one side, right, the one of the best aspects of the job, then if you could articulate what are the more challenging aspects of your job, and you've already alluded, like, again, you threw out there that COVID, sounds like threw everybody a curveball.

Jamie Brodnax: 15:10

it definitely did. Yeah. Um, so we're kind of coming out of a virtual-only time to back in person. And that's been a little bit challenging, just because some of my clients never met me in person, up until just in the last couple of months. So we had an established relationship, but as you know, it's different to talk to someone face to face, than to talk with them over the computer or over the phone. Um, so that's been a little bit of a challenge. Again, the changes that come, those can be challenging, where you may be doing something one way for a year. And now you know, next week, you're gonna have to start doing that a completely different way or following a different set of rules. So just keeping up with all of those changes, not only DDA wide, but with the different provider agencies, and then on an individual level to I mean, people's lives change their needs change. So just really keeping track of all of the moving pieces all at the same time and knowing where they are and where they're going.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:19

You brought up a point that I was going to ask about, have you witnessed a lot of changes with providers or a lot of hardships, I should say, with providers and families trying to find a place for their individual upon exit?

Jamie Brodnax: 16:34

Absolutely. That's been an ongoing challenge. I'm honestly not sure if that will ever not be Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why self direction has become such a big deal right now. Because it does allow you to really, you know, have the opportunity to find your own staff or even, you know, have your family and friends provide that service for you. But yet, provider agencies are struggling to keep staff that are able to do the job. But then of course, when they bring in new staff, there's a period of time where they're training and having to learn the individuals that they are supporting. So it's been a challenge, not just to find places like for the transitioning youth to go into, but also the people who are already receiving services to stay there and to continue receiving the service at the level that they're used to.

Meghan Smallwood: 17:29

Have you seen many switch from a provider to self direction that had been with the provider for a while?

Jamie Brodnax: 17:36

I would say it's been a lot, but there has been some changes. And there's a lot more that are thinking about it that are taking a little bit of time, just because of all of the internal transitions that are going on with self direction right now. Not quite ready to jump into that while all of those things are taking place. But I, you know, I can't predict the future. But I would say over the next few years, I expect to see an even bigger transition towards self direction.

Meghan Smallwood: 18:08

I agree. I think there's going to be a major shift coming.

Jamie Brodnax: 18:11

Yeah. And I can see why.

Meghan Smallwood: 18:14

Yeah, absolutely.

Patrick Cadigan: 18:15

Needless to say that that's something that we've been hearing a lot about. And we've done a couple of parent interviews, and they are always talking about self direction. The one, obviously, I mean, that's definitely going to be the direction that we go in in terms of the the conversation, but there is that I wanted to jump back on really quickly that because I'm hearing you talk about all of this stuff. How do you keep track of it all?

Jamie Brodnax: 18:41

Um.

Patrick Cadigan: 18:41

I think that that's the one thing about transition that makes me nervous sometimes. And just in general, like, you know, because as Meghan and I are talking and you know, we're kind of going back and forth. And she's talking just in terms of what it is that she's tracking. And so anyway, well, how do you do it? Like, what is your what is your workflow look like?

Jamie Brodnax: 18:58

I have an enormous amount of files, and Excel sheets and documents, and I'm constantly taking notes. My agency sends out memos, at least weekly, sometimes more often than that, just to update us on the things that are going on. DDA sends out memos. I follow everything. I sign up for every newsletter that I can, and lots and lots of paying attention, documenting it all. Then once you're doing it every day, and you're referring back to it every day, then it really does become something that it's just in your head, you know it I keep lots and lots of files.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:42

I can imagine and I know the amount of work that goes into like creating a person centered plan. I mean, that's yeah, that's tedious.

Jamie Brodnax: 19:52

It can be for sure.

Patrick Cadigan: 20:01

Well, I've been diving into, just in terms, of the trying to understand digital portfolios. Again, like, I always I've thrown it out there before. And I always say that I always consider myself to be the surrogate for the families because I'm, I'm learning this as I go, you know, like Meghan is the person who knows everything about it. And then I just kind of come in and, you know, I'm absorbing all of this information, but kind of like the two of you throughout before, a lot of the stuff that we keep hearing about is around self direction, and then that and then that changing model. So how, what is self direction look like for you like how, like, again, if you were to come and explain it to a family who is new to this whole process? How would you explain it to them?

Jamie Brodnax: 20:42

It's not easy to put into a single word, it is a flexible option. It really does allow for you to build an individualized plan of support that revolves around your individual schedule your individual needs, and gives the person the opportunity to work with the staff that they choose. And the way that they want to.

Patrick Cadigan: 21:14

How does that have an effect on what you do as the coordinator...like, does it make it easier? Does it make it harder?

Jamie Brodnax: 21:22

It is a little bit more challenging, just because there's a lot more decision making that takes part on, you know, this, what I would call this side of the plan, where in traditional services, you're going to make the decision who you work with as far as the provider agency that you choose, or the service that you request. But then the people who are running that agency are primarily going to be the decision makers as far as what you're doing throughout the day, the activities, the skill, building, the staff schedule, things like that. Where if you have a self directed plan, you are the one making all of the decisions, and I'm here to support you in doing that.

Meghan Smallwood: 22:10

That's a great way to put it. Thank you. So I was going to ask about the I were just always told that there's training for the coordinators about self direction to do you guys have to be trained in it? Because I know that also changes to like, what? Yeah...

Jamie Brodnax: 22:29

Yeah, yeah, so we, we do a lot of training, um, anything that you can think of waivered services wise, we're gonna get training in it. There is some self directed, specific training that supports us in just building the budget, having the right kind of conversations that support that the entire process of choosing, choosing your fiscal management service, figuring out how you're going to hire employees. And and I really like to present it as if you are now the HR for your own company. And think about all the responsibilities that come along with that. It's my job to support you in completing those responsibilities. So we're trained in how to assist an individual in choosing their staff, how to talk about, you know, what type of benefits package you want to offer, or, or wages, things that you would naturally think of when you're thinking of services and supports, you may not be thinking should I give my employees paid time off, or medical benefits, things like that. So just a lot of conversation training, we actually do fake conversations where we do have the opportunity to practice some of those questions and figure out the best way to ask them so that they come across clear. And the person no matter who you're supporting, or with their knowledge is of self direction, that we can ask very direct, clear questioning to get the answers that we need, so that we can have the plan that they need.

Meghan Smallwood: 24:05

I think a lot of families like the idea of self direction, but they are scared by the fact that many of them have said, well, it's a full time job, I already have a

Jamie Brodnax: 24:18

It's more responsibility than choosing full time job. traditional services. However, with the changes that are coming with self direction, over the last year, and a lot more of the responsibilities and moving to an app or a website that has cut down on the workload part that often fell back on the families or you know, the the person that was supporting the individual receiving services.

Meghan Smallwood: 24:46

Yeah.

Patrick Cadigan: 24:47

Now, playing off of that, though. One of the things and this is something that Meg and I talked about a couple of days ago that you know, we've in support of our website, and then of course on the podcast. As you know, we belong to a lot of Facebook groups and stuff. And there's been a lot of chatter around. I guess that they're big changes have happened recently. And so there's a lot of frustration. And I was wondering, could you talk a little bit about that, like, from what you're seeing it from your side of the pond?

Jamie Brodnax: 25:18

I would say the biggest change is, well, two things one, for quite a while DDA utilized two FMS agencies, one of those agencies is no longer an FMS choice. And then they've now added two additional ones.

Patrick Cadigan: 25:36

And when you say FMS, you mean fiscal management services? Correct, yes, it's, it's actually referred to FMCS. Now, yes, I have to get into, because it's fiscal management and counseling services, not just fiscal management, but their responsibilities did not change just their name did. So that's been a big transition in itself, just all of a sudden, you know, we don't have an FMS anymore, what are we going to do having to choose a new one go through that entire process, which also includes the new hire process and training and switching over their entire staff, not just themselves. But then for individuals who you know, have been comfortable with doing things a certain way, they are now doing things a completely different way, clocking in and clocking out, filing all of their paperwork, monitoring their budget, all of those things used to be physical paper documents that you had to keep track of, and then communicate to your support broker. Now, the majority of that is done through apps that then link to your own personal page on the FMS website. And then that information is communicated freely between the people on your team and your chosen FMS. Being comfortable using those apps being comfortable accessing that website. It's not been an easy transition for a lot of people. So along those lines, and of course, you may not be able to answer to it, but you think, is it the is it, is it like a user experience? Or is it because of the technology? It's not implemented, well, I guess is the question that I have.

Jamie Brodnax: 27:20

The sites and the apps, they're pretty user friendly, they're pretty straightforward. I really think it is just a sense of another change. Like, here we are, we made it through the pandemic, we dealt with all those changes. And now it's another change. And it's also a change that lots and lots of people are going through all at the same time. So there's a little bit of delay, sometimes in the responses, if you have a question, or if you need assistance, or if something isn't working right, you're likely not going to get to talk to a person today about it, you're gonna have to wait a day, or two, or three or four, it's hard to say. And I think with that comes a sense of fear, and I don't want to mess up, I don't want my kid or my loved one to lose their services. I don't want my employees to not get paid correctly. Where before it was like I said, a physical document, they could see they knew I wrote on here, what time they clocked in and clocked out and everything's in front of me. And now it's just not.

Meghan Smallwood: 28:27

That can be scary.

Jamie Brodnax: 28:28

Yeah. There are some things about self direction that may not work for everyone, you know, it's a personal choice, you have to look at the positives, the negatives and decide for yourself, know if they're going to work for you, because maybe it's not a negative to you, but it is to somebody else. And those really came down to the increased responsibility. Even though things have become a little bit less demanding. As far as paperwork and keeping track of things, you still do have to do that. You do have to be responsible for monitoring your staff, you have to be responsible for staying on top of their trainings, ensuring that things are happening the way that they're supposed to be. Um, it's also a lot more communication, where individuals who are in traditional services, like I said, they go to their day program every day or CDF or whatever their day looks like. And the staff and directors there. They are in charge of what's going on, where if you're in self direction, your team has to work together to build those days and those schedules and that's every single day, and you have to be comfortable having those conversations, and you're talking about conversations if your staff isn't meeting Your needs or supporting your goals the way that you need them to, you have to be comfortable to have those conversations too. And that's not for everybody. Yeah, it's also a lot more decision making, you know, people are not going to necessarily tell you what they think things should look like, this is self directed, they're going to expect the individual and their close team to be able to make those decisions. And sometimes they don't have the information to do that.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:31

Yeah, I hear a lot of families get very nervous about, Well, how am I going to fill their day? And, you know, I'll sit down with them. And we'll bring in like, the special educator and kind of brainstorm Well, here's some suggestions. And, you know, I think it comes naturally to like us, because we're educators, and we know what they've been doing at school. And oh, yeah, we can absolutely do these out of the box ideas, you know, go volunteer here, you know, offered to shred for business. But I think for parents, you know, that is very out of the comfort zone. And it makes them very nervous to be the one in charge of this. And even if you're telling them to go, go to who you know, like go if you're a part of a church, talk to people at the church and just put it out there, I think, yeah, it can be very scary.

Patrick Cadigan: 31:19

I remember that came up during one of the parent panels that we had participated in that. What was it Colette Jackson had come about that? I know that we did that also came up when we had interviewed Curtis and Selena.

Meghan Smallwood: 31:34

Selena.

Patrick Cadigan: 31:34

And again, that that, that that notion of out of the box thinking...

Meghan Smallwood: 31:38

Yeah, I think you know, and we try to prepare them, like, I know, when they leave, you know, here's everything they've done, this is what they like to do. Like, I know, I had a student last year who we work very closely with the parent gave her a whole bunch of suggestions. And, you know, it's a year later, and she's definitely getting there. But it does take some time. And it's yeah, it's just a lot of a lot of work on there and to start, but then a lot of parents say, once they get over that initial hump of setting it up and having things in place, it does get easier. Yeah, yeah. But I also know, you know, and I like to tell parents to remember you need to have a backup plan, because people do call out sick, people go on vacation people quit. So it's gonna be your backup person. And it might be you for a little bit.

Jamie Brodnax: 32:31

Yeah. Yeah, I make the same suggestions as far as having having a backup plan, and then maybe even a backup plan for that one, too.

Patrick Cadigan: 32:41

That seemed to be the lot of the conversation that or at least a lot of the comments that I've seen, it talked about the staffing, staffing seems to be the big challenge.

Meghan Smallwood: 32:52

Staffing and activities to fill the day; those are those two big topics. And that's what I know parents a few years out who might say I'm thinking about it, I'll tell them, start doing a little research, start doing a little, you know, digging into what you would do to fill their day, what were they like, make a list, you know, have a meeting with people that know them and brainstorm together about what is meaningful for their day.

Jamie Brodnax: 33:14

Also, like you said, talk to your school transition specialist, talk to your DDA coordinator. I know I have a file that that's all that's in there is activities, places to go, you know, volunteer opportunities, different agencies that offer different groups or you know, fun activities, both in person, and virtual, obviously, because of the times. But you guys put together that list, and then put together a group of people that you could talk to, that you can bounce ideas off of, you know, whether that's your family, or your friends, or people that you're meeting through different social groups. But a lot of people have a lot of great ideas, and they might think of something that you just didn't think of, and vice versa. Yeah. So always be open to sharing that information.

Meghan Smallwood: 34:07

And you brought up a good point, too, I'm finding more and you probably seen more to have like different providers that will accept self directed funding. I know that a lot of parents often say, Well, I'm just going to vendor a day program, and you know, have my student or individual who's on self directed go for a few days, but I know in Howard County, that's been very difficult to find.

Jamie Brodnax: 34:29

Yes. There's a few.

Meghan Smallwood: 34:32

Yeah.

Jamie Brodnax: 34:32

But the one thing that I would say about that is start early because they only reserved a very, very limited number of spaces in their program for people who are self directed. The funding, which funding rules is beyond me, but the funding is not the same. The insurance is not the same. They cannot have a program full of self directed people that kind of wouldn't really go along. With having, you know, a traditional provider agency. So if if you want to go self directed and have a meaningful day program, start as early as you can talking to them. There's also, some of the programs have pretty long application processes and interviews that they would like to do. So figure out what direction you're interested in heading, and try to plan as early as you possibly can.

Meghan Smallwood: 35:27

That is good advice.

Patrick Cadigan: 35:37

If you were to create like a best practices list for families, what are like three to five top items that you would include in that best practices.

Jamie Brodnax: 35:46

Plan early, early as possible. Soon as you know that this is a direction that your loved one is going to be heading in, start asking questions, start thinking about not just what you want their life to look like, but what they want their life to look like the things that are really meaningful to them, have tough conversations, talk to your child's family, or sorry, talk to your child's teachers, talk to other family members, talk to people that you meet, you know, through support groups, or just different social groups. figure out really what does what does this person love to do? What makes them feel successful, because your idea of success and their idea of success may not be the same thing. And then build goals off of that. Even if they're just, I will get through my day with no behavior. That is, that's a goal. And that's important. So build those goals, long term and short term goals, and talk to your coordinators and your tradition or your Transition Specialists. Because we are really here to help. Don't feel like you are bothering people don't feel like this is a dumb question, or they don't have time for this. That's why we're in these roles. I always have time. And if I don't I'll make time, it's important to me that people are informed and know what their choices are. And I think the only thing to add to that would be inform yourself. Spend time researching, spend time watching boring videos and going through the boring websites. Because there really is a lot of information out there. And it's not something that you can make a decision about overnight. You need time there, save your documents.

Meghan Smallwood: 37:37

Yes, make a file.

Jamie Brodnax: 37:40

When you are applying for that waiver, we are asking for things from years ago, things that you might not even think matter. We're going to talk about them and ask about them, especially financial documents, which you don't necessarily automatically think that those are going to be needed, but they are.

Meghan Smallwood: 38:02

One last thing I was gonna say, you know, you talked about serious topics. And I just had a meeting last week we were talking about planning, you know, when you're no longer there, and your loved one still is. And I know that's a scary topic. And that's not one, you know, a lot of people want to think about. But whatever you do put in place, especially self direction, it's important to keep a record of it so that if you work on someone else could just pick it right up and continue implementing for your loved one's life. So that was just another piece of advice. I know that came in handy last week. But...

Jamie Brodnax: 38:36

Yeah, definitely. That's actually one of the questions that I ask in my initial interviews that I have with new individuals, who I'm going to be supporting is, you know, who do I call if something happens? Because it's not just, you know, it's not just aging. Anything could happen at any time? Yeah. What, what do you want to happen? Like, if you're not here anymore? What would you want your loved ones life to look like? And do they know? Have you talked with them about this plan? Let's not there's you know, in a time like that, you don't want surprises. So talk with me about it, talk with them about it. Put it in writing would be even better. Yeah, have a plan in place.

Meghan Smallwood: 39:22

Yeah.

Patrick Cadigan: 39:23

Well, it sounds like good advice. And I think there's a lot there. And there's going to be a lot to sit around and think about and but I also think that that is a good place to stop. And, but I am going to say thank you. Thank you.

Meghan Smallwood: 39:41

Yes, thank you, Jamie.

Jamie Brodnax: 39:43

Thank you guys for having me.

Patrick Cadigan: 39:45

Yeah, thanks for taking the time to come out and talk with us and share this information out.

Meghan Smallwood: 39:57

All right. Well, that was awesome.

Patrick Cadigan: 39:59

That was really good. That was really helpful. I learned a lot.

Meghan Smallwood: 40:02

Yeah, I, Jamie is just chock full of information. So hopefully you all were able to absorb some of that. And if not listen to it again and play it back. That's why we do this. So you have that information at your disposal.

Patrick Cadigan: 40:14

And she just also seemed like a darn nice person.

Meghan Smallwood: 40:17

She does doesn't she? Like we always say, please make sure to follow the information not just from this podcast that we just did, but our other podcasts and our other shows in our show notes. Make sure to like follow and share the podcast with any and all that you may know. Hopefully, we are reaching beyond you know our initial groups and making our way to other people who really could use this information as well. Check out our YouTube channel where we have done some of the legwork for you. And we've curated some of those videos that relate to the transition process with topics like guardianship, the alternatives to guardianship ABLE account and more to come. But definitely subscribe there as well. And also, don't forget that website, www dot post secondary transition.com It's full of information around the transmission process, and you'll also find out our contact information. So please make sure to bookmark it and share out.

Patrick Cadigan: 41:20

We are all over that resource I gotta say.

Meghan Smallwood: 41:23

Absolutely. So no shortage.

Patrick Cadigan: 41:26

Well, you know what? I think we're good. I think we can sign this one off. All

Meghan Smallwood: 41:30

Right. Thanks, everybody. Brilliant. Thanks.