Meghan Smallwood: 0:20

Hi again, welcome back to our podcast. We're glad you're here. My name is Megan Smallwood, and I am one of the CO hosts of this podcast that you're listening to. And who is my co host?

Patrick Cadigan: 0:30

My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am the second co-host for P2Transition or post secondary transition. We are back.

Meghan Smallwood: 0:39

Yes, and we are here with another interview. This one's a real special one, a little different from our others. chock full of information for you, though, and we are excited for you to hear what our interviewee has to say. But first, before we get into that, Patrick, do you want to tell our audience a little bit about what Post Secondary Transition really is?

Patrick Cadigan: 0:59

Yeah, because we always tend to do that. Alright, so Post-Secondary Transition, this focuses between the ages of 14 through 21. It seeks to to answer the question, what do I want for my child after they leave school? We're looking to help answer their question by asking parents to think long term milestones, research, resources, goals,

Meghan Smallwood: 1:23

Right? And how do we different define long term? What do you want your child to be doing after the school bus stops coming, which is different for everybody. It's a completely individualized experience. And we recognize it can be scary. Along with that individuality, it can come loneliness, and in some cases, a sense of isolation. But there are other families who are going through this probably at the same time you are.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:46

And along the journey, focusing on the milestones. Some of these milestones are built around timeframes, and other cases help determine them. Using your child's school experiences to help with doing research. Using the resources at your disposal, including the school transition specialist and other teachers, it is a lot of information, there is a lot to consider. In many cases, answers are not a meet don't immediately present themselves, there is going to be some give, and there's going to be some take, there will be things that you will do that don't have the desired outcome. So trying to do it all at once can feel consuming. So we're hoping to clear away some of the fog.

Meghan Smallwood: 2:27

Right? And we have a couple people here to help with that. Do you want to do a little introduction for who they are?

Patrick Cadigan: 2:35

Yeah, a little bit of background. So Curtis and Selena Gray. I actually worked with Selena in the past at my previous school. And she was she was basically my boss. And her family has a really unique story. And we wanted them to both tell that story and see what happens. So...

Meghan Smallwood: 3:05

All right. And so today, we're lucky enough to speak with Selena and Curt, about their foster son Phillip, thanks for joining us, guys.

Curtis Gray: 3:13

Thanks for having us.

Meghan Smallwood: 3:14

Yeah, so different scenario than some of our other guests on the podcast. So do you mind just telling us a little bit of background, mostly starting with Philip when he was going through that like post-secondary time getting ready to leave the school system.

Selina Gray: 3:30

And then my student for eight years, but his parents and I had talked many times, they knew that they didn't want him living with them forever, because they have other children. And they understand like that's a process part of growing up is moving out and getting your own place. So they had started talking to me earlier about the possibility they knew my background was residential. So we had been discussing the possibility of him moving in with me after he graduated for quite a while. And so when it came up to his graduation time, he graduated and I think he moved in but the very next week or something, they they had it ready. And he moved in with us the very next week after he graduated. They had hoped when he was 18 that he could move in then because he's an adult and I was like, Well, someone was teacher. So unless you're going to move into another school, that's that's not going to...

Meghan Smallwood: 4:29

Conflict of interest. Yes.

Selina Gray: 4:31

Yes.

Meghan Smallwood: 4:39

So could you just give us a little insight into you know, Philips disability and his level of need overall.

Selina Gray: 4:47

So Philip has autism and he is verbal, but he is non conversational? Verbal. He the majority is he's echo Blaylock, meaning you He will generally echo the last thing that you said is what he will repeat. So understanding his needs can be pretty difficult at times, he doesn't, he doesn't have safety, safety awareness at all. So he does need, watched and supported most of the time, like, when we go out, he will walk out in front of a car, he will not notice that the car is moving. When we're in groups, he will not notice if he has left our group and joined a completely different group of people that he does not know. But he is somebody who who can work. He is somebody who, once you teach them a job, then he knows the job, where Phillip has struggled through school. And where he almost failed out in an enclave site is when other people's needs supersede what he needs. And so Philip, for instance, when he was working at our greenhouse, the school has a greenhouse, and he would go out to that site and work there. And he could do more work independently than the six classmates combined. If you gave him the work and you walk away, you can prompt him from across the building to remind him to keep working. Because sometimes he gets distracted, but who doesn't. I don't work 100% of the time while I'm at work. So he could do that. If you walk away, conversation is hard for Phillip. It's another job. So if you stand there, and you talk to Phillip, while he's working, you're asking him to do two jobs at the same time. And that doesn't work for him. It doesn't work for who he is as a person. And what was happening was Phillip had started having a lot of behavioral outbursts. We had worked really hard on Philips behavior plan. And he was being very successful. And then he started having these outbursts out at the job site at the greenhouse. And we couldn't figure out what was going on. And then finally, I discovered that the teacher who had that group would stand there and talk to fill up. Now, from her perspective, she wasn't being unkind. She wanted to ask him how his day was let him know. Basically, she wanted to invest emotionally in him. And she wanted him to know that she cared about him and who he was. And so then I talked to the teacher and I said, Look, conversations hard for him. Don't Don't do that to him. It doesn't help him. And she said, Well, sometimes it helps. And I was like, no, no, I've had them for eight years, it has never helped conversation doesn't help. You need to give them the work and walk away. And then she said, Well, I don't want to be rude. And I was like I said, it doesn't make you feel special that you're asking about his day or his job. He doesn't feel more loved because you're doing that. And she was like, it's really rude not to do that. And I said, so what I'm hearing from you is that your social comfort is more important than what Phillip needs to be successful, because he's about to lose this job site due to his behaviors which are occurring, because you're insisting on social norms that don't work for him. And we ended up adjusting the teacher that was taking him.

Patrick Cadigan: 8:16

It's interesting that you say that because I was recently listening to the all Autism Talk podcast. And in it, the host, Catherine Johnson was interviewing Russell Lehmann. He is a motivational speaker and poet, with autism. One of the things that he talked about was the expectation that when he is having a conversation with somebody, as someone who has autism, he is expected to meet them where they are conversationally, as opposed to the other way around. And I just thought that was. So as I'm hearing you talk about this and talking about this experience, like that made me think about that.

Selina Gray: 8:57

Yeah, that's been close to my heart. For years. It's been a struggle for years.

Curtis Gray: 9:03

Well, I've also noticed too, and one of the harder things for me when I started working with him was understanding that he has a 30 second delay in processing. And it wasn't until my current wife said, You know what, let's just time you for a second. And I won't ask you a question. You can't answer me for 30 more seconds. And they will it hurt. It hurt because I was not a processor. I myself was I making aware to the amount of time that he needs because I'm just like other people in Saudi it's like, we're moving in a certain case. And you get run over in the conversation if you don't keep up. And I think that goes hand in hand with his not wanting to talk because he's trying to do a job and then also carry a conversation. And that took a while I had to keep my my prompts and questions short and give them time and we now been more successful.

Unknown: 10:07

Yeah, and then you have to get yourself comfortable with. There's a specific way that works to speak to Phillip. And it is it's a limited language and concise language really clear. Which the funny thing is socially speaking, it sounds rude. It sounds rude. So Joe Average who's listening to you talk to him. They're like, why are you being so rude? And you're thinking, I'm not, I'm communicating in a way that works for him. That's why he needs and I'm okay with that. That 32nd delay was funny. And the reason I made him time it is because he, like so many others. It's documented all over. Philip has a 32nd delay. But people will wait five, maybe six seconds, and they think it's been 30. But it's been five or six and 30 seconds is much longer than people think. But if you can get that timing down, then you know, because as you repeat it to fill up, he would become more elevated, his behavior would become more elevated as you repeat things. And it like resets him every time. I lost track of how many times in the classroom. So it would be bouncing on a therapy ball. And I would say all right, it's time for us to get ready for buses, go pack up your backpack, he continues to bounce. Like I said nothing. And then a solid 30 seconds later, he just stands up like I just spoke and goes and does exactly what I said. If I don't repeat the direction, if I repeat it, he will become more elevated. And then it's like he cannot remember what he's supposed to do. And my perception has always been he's it's resetting every time I say it, and now he's stuck in what step he's doing.

Patrick Cadigan: 11:53

One thing that you had said, Selena, that you had mentioned that you that the family knew that you were residential. What did you mean by that?

Selina Gray: 11:59

For 12 years, I worked in an adult residential facility back home in South Dakota. So that's where I was a supervisor of a group home that had eight adult clients in it. And the agency, we had residential, we had supported employment supported living enclave. We had job coaching, we had all of it and the agency that I came from. So that was my whole background before I moved here.

Meghan Smallwood: 12:30

What did it look like then when Philip moved in with you? I mean, how was that transition? I guess, going from teacher to now. He's living with you.

Curtis Gray: 12:38

We're still waiting for it. He's not, he only sees teacher. He thinks he's on 24/7. Like at school. He's adorable. And also pretty comical.

Selina Gray: 12:51

He's gotten, he's gotten better. But Kurt's not wrong in that, to this day, he still asked permission to go to the bathroom, which he does not have to do. And I say Bubba, it's your home. Go, you're an adult go. Which is funny, because we've gone to dinner with his father and his stepmother. We've gone to dinner in their home. And they're Philip doesn't ask permission to go to the bathroom. And he doesn't ask permission to go snooping the refrigerator or the kitchen cabinets. But he still does here. We're working on that we're working on. So now if he says he's hungry, I'll say okay, go to the pantry and find something. I just want him to get more comfortable knowing that he can go but it has been hard. But my thought process is, so now he just turned 30. So he's been with me for nine years while I was his teacher for eight years. So you know, it's a really close timeline. So I think it's going to take more time to unlearn. But it's it's been an interesting process. And it's

Curtis Gray: 13:54

Also different too, then, because dad and mom and family are still involved. So he gets moments of I'm back at dad's house for a week. And so I wonder if cutting it off completely hasn't allowed him to, but I don't think it's definitely a hindrance. It's just everybody blending together, making it easier for him.

Meghan Smallwood: 14:20

It shows that he was well trained at school, I guess. You see the teachers Right? Exactly. You did your job, right. So when he exited then so residential piece was taking care of what did he do for a meaningful day.

Selina Gray: 14:46

So originally, he started out in an adult day program, Kurt would take him to his work van, the work van would pick them up in the location and there were several other clients that would get picked up at that time. He Go to the day program all day long, we would meet the work van back at three o'clock 330. That's like a school day, just like a school day. And Curtis would pick him up and then come pick me up and we'd all go home. At that time it was it was very much like he was out of the house that whole time, and then comes back to us in the afternoon. And that's how it started.

Patrick Cadigan: 15:22

And then, just out of curiosity, now, how did you guys come to this day program? Were you already familiar with it? Did you have to do some research? Like how did you find it?

Meghan Smallwood: 15:33

And were you involved in the process, because I know mom and dad are still around.

Selina Gray: 15:37

Correct. So I was involved in the process simply because I was his teacher. And so at the time, the way that it worked, when our students were coming close to that transition age, the agencies that they were looking at utilizing the family was looking at utilizing, they would reach out to us and they'd come in observe the students in the school, we would go out to the agency, and we would check out the agency and the kind of work that they were doing, we would give them tips. So that was my only involvement that his parents were the ones who landed on that day program, I was involved, only the way that I was for every other student.

Curtis Gray: 16:13

That's what was my knowledge was that the schools almost did like field trips, for those kids and the teacher would go and then they would kind of go through a step by step of what the day would be for them, and seeing how they would react and how the teachers could then mold their day to day to fit that what that program would be.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:40

Yeah, and I liked that there's so much at least at that point, there was so much involved in between the agency and the school, because I feel like a lot of the agencies have lessened that communication over the years to hopefully we're getting back to that, or at least if the parent was to chime in and say, Hey, I'd really like for you to come see them or for them to come see out, you know, just to met, like you said match their day at a day program as to what they're doing in school.

Selina Gray: 17:03

Yeah, the truth is, I felt like that was something that was highly beneficial for the students. Because the fact is, the students are able to do the due to do more than I think people who don't know them would assume of them. And the truth is, our students are no different than anyone else, they're going to do the least they have to to get what they want. So if they get with staff who are like, Oh, they have special needs, you know, we won't make them work so hard. They're gonna be like, Yeah, I can't do it, knowing that they can.

Curtis Gray: 17:36

Prime example, Phillip, she, up until I'd say a couple years ago, could have thought the film did not open up a bag of chips. I looked at her one day, she's just nonchalantly doing it. Like it was routine...

Selina Gray: 17:48

He asked for help.

Curtis Gray: 17:48

But then she has a you know, he could do it himself. And sure enough, she goes, he goes and sets it down. So the whole time he was planar. Yeah. So yeah, they will definitely take the oppurtunity.

Selina Gray: 18:01

But everybody would. So when, when the agencies would come in, and they get to see us working with the students in the classroom, then they have a different visual, they have different assumptions about their competence levels, when they get to see them work with us. So it was a shame to see that kind of...

Meghan Smallwood: 18:19

Yeah.

Curtis Gray: 18:19

Would also help the teachers, then the teachers knew, okay, if this is what you're shooting for, we can make

Meghan Smallwood: 18:22

And I know that constant communication and stuff I remember one of the things she said she had done or her and someone else here at the school, they had gotten ready then even like the the portfolios that we've been for like mail office, you know, and getting too used to doing that rhythm. So that when they would go into the job room, they are already ready. And giving them the most tools. sending them out with, but last few years, I love highlighting the jobs like pictures and a list of tasks that they're doing. So they go they're like, oh, yeah, they have been folding pizza boxes, oh, yeah, they can do this, because you're right, they can, they'll go there and, and be looked at by some staff, like, they're not gonna be able do that. When you're this, they've been doing that for years. So...

Selina Gray: 19:07

Exactly. And with teachers being able to go out to the agencies, we could see the different kinds of tasks, the agency what we're doing, so we can create the similar tasks at the school. So it wasn't brand new exposure after post 21, like after graduation, high, everything's new...

Meghan Smallwood: 19:24

Or even the same kind of work sites, you know, they're going to a food bank, why can't we find a food pantry? Because they're helping, you know, Habitat for Humanity? Let's find something with construction that way there. They got some kind of experience. And I feel like it does make them more marketable for the agencies. The agency can say no, you know, but if they know they've got the skill set, come on over.

Curtis Gray: 19:43

Even in this area around when the school is there's a lot of foreign co-ops, right. Exactly. There was something where they're getting the tools and knowledge how to do the farming and planting and everything else that just benefits everybody.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:55

Exactly. And I feel like we're in a time now where we all still need to Helping each other build back up. And there's so many volunteer opportunities that we need to let our guys try them and see where they succeed.

Patrick Cadigan: 20:16

One of the questions that I have, as I'm hearing everybody kind of talk about this stuff, did you guys get a choice as to the types of activities that Philip was going to do throughout his day within the day program?

Selina Gray: 20:27

So his parents did, they had me sit in on the interview to give him feedback. But that's not really required of teachers. But of course I did. But what they did was they ran us through and there were only like three different areas where they were like, Philip had an option. They said, hey, just so you know, we offer this class. So he would be working at a station, but this time, he couldn't leave that station and come and do this class, this class. There were like three of them. And so they asked, Would it be something he was interested in? And like, I remember one of them being a computer's class that he could have done, which Phillip wouldn't have cared about, but there was a music class, we knew he would. So we said, yes, absolutely. And I can't remember what the third one was. But that was all that we had the input about his programming, because I remember, we had worked hard with Philip Philip could work at a greenhouse and do more work independently than all six classmates combined. But when he got to his adult day program, their belief about his skill set and the time, they said they could not put him over in like the Enclave, the kind of part of the agency, they kept him into the main floor.

Patrick Cadigan: 21:51

And when you say enclave, what, what is enclave? They were

Selina Gray: 21:55

people that those were clients who would actually go out to different job sites. In a group, they would get to go to different job sites. And they said that Philip could not go out to the different job sites. So so he worked in building all the time, he worked in building at all times.

Meghan Smallwood: 22:22

So he started a day program. And how how long was he there for? Because I know plans change?

Selina Gray: 22:31

Yes, they did. He was at the day program, I want to say for two years or just shy of two years. Yes. So he was there for about that amount of time. It was a struggle. There were several, there were concerns that we had the fact that so it was considered to not be independent enough to be able to do the Enclave work, when he could, it turned out that the agency that he was going to they would not implement his behavior plan. As it was written, they they would not and they had this idea. Philip is not. He's not non compliant. And he's not fully independent with Philip, he will do a job if you say, alright, so put that away, it's time to work, he will put it away and get to work. But at his job, where he was, unless he was independently motivated to work, then they wouldn't have him work. Because they said he's an adult, he needs to make that choice. And I was like, and he will just tell him, it's time. I don't understand. And so he would spend days of just sitting and rocking at a table with a steamer. And that's what he would do.

Curtis Gray: 23:50

No stimmer was a piece of a piece of string or a piece of a lab lanyard, that he would stimulate himself to, to focus, his parents instituted that we have since taken away because it became more aggressive. Because he made it it became negative to him. But the other issue with that was that I try not to be too negative, but they took everything that the teachers took for years to figure out with Phillip do something that it didn't backfire. So they tried something new it worked. You guys have all been building on this behavior plan throughout the years for an agency to just say no more. No, and it sounds good. They're adults. They should be independent, but...

Selina Gray: 24:42

They're not.

Curtis Gray: 24:44

Their on different levels.

Selina Gray: 24:45

He could do so much if you ever watched him work. He can do so much. He just needs and verbal direction. How hard is it to give verbal direction. So that was being problematic the behavior plan following was being problematic, his aggression started to increase. And we didn't know why this is how we found out this was going on, he started becoming more aggressive at home and very agitated. And then the van situation, he would come flying off that van really amped up. And it took us a while before, one of the things we noticed is this music would come blasting, the driver didn't like listening to all of the noises clients would make in the van. So he just listened to very loud music. Phillip is very, very sound sensitive, very, like his bedroom is downstairs, and I can be on the main floor, and then a regular voice softer than what I'm currently speaking in. I can say, Philip, it's time to come upstairs. Let's get ready for dinner. He can hear me and he will respond. So you put him in a van. With that kind of loud music. I can't even imagine how painful that had to be for him. And we spoke several times with the van driver and with the agency. And that wasn't changing. And I think our final straw was when we tried getting the headphones and stuff but we didn't give him phones. It wasn't enough.

Curtis Gray: 26:15

I think the final straw really though also was...

Selina Gray: 26:18

That they got dropped off...

Curtis Gray: 26:20

Now what was the was they in politics, the government or the state government side? Yeah, optimum wage to $15 an hour. I guess we've been on a steady incline. I don't know if we've reached that mark yet. It's been a while since I've even looked at minimum wage. But they they the kids there fall fell under the guidelines that they were required to have minimum wage. And a lot of the jobs that they were getting were redo's, like they were repacking folded blankets in skids. And it would go through the process and back on the U-haul truck. Those people were like we're not paying $15 an hour for a job as being redone, that we can pay one person so a lot of those jobs were gone and we got a note saying that Philip was going to go in the rec and leisure room which because they deemed him not able to go on job sites as we were just saying that if you gave them the you'd learn and they each job site had to staff and for them to understand that all they needed to have one person come around say hey, go back to work and then he won't walk in. But because he wasn't independent he was going to be stuck in a room and they were going to go on community jobs which his dad would have to pay for money to them all anything else on top of everything else that they've already so...

Meghan Smallwood: 27:47

Oh that's interesting how they handled that.

Selina Gray: 27:49

Yeah, not well, in talking with his dad and with Curtis Curtis decided he would take over Phillips day programming full time.

Curtis Gray: 28:00

Self-directed has been...

Selina Gray: 28:01

So self-directed is the way we went after that.

Curtis Gray: 28:12

Pro self-directed all the way if if you've got the right people who all you got to do is just ask for jobs. I mean, we were eating at Red Robin and they have these little folded up things for the kids with a crayon and and she simply asked the guy Hey, how do you guys do this? Oh, we come in so such earlier to get it all done. She goes how about you give it to me I'll haven't done in a week with my kids at school. And she got our kids in her classroom not even enclave for school, her just for classroom, a job that got done every week. And it's like in since then. It's amazing. Now it's also quite an I guess it's still in its infancy. But a lot of companies will not allow volunteering, because you have to fall in their insurance. So you really have to look where you can find the work. We just got a job actually here at Cedar Lane, because they're very low on custodians. And so we come in twice a week, and we reveal toilet paper, paper towels and soap. That's it. We're done in a few hours. But it fills up his day and...

Selina Gray: 29:19

And it also works on so many skills. It works on a scale so he doesn't lose them. But the truth is there are there are companies there are some guidelines. Some of them can't take volunteers. Some of them provide enclave sites and if they provide an enclave site, they can't take volunteers or take additional jobs. If they specifically hire individuals with special needs. Then they don't take volunteers because it takes a job from somebody they could hire and who could earn money. But we still been pretty lucky at finding jobs for Phillip which is great. I especially love it when we because we do try to look for jobs. that are like for Phillip skill set that he would enjoy. Now the truth is, when it comes to my Phillip Phillip was what I call monotonous jobs, it's, if he can do the exact same thing every single day like that brings him joy. Because when you're working with him, that's what you get to do. But that's about him. And it's not about me. And that's what he likes. He really likes things that are the exact same every time and you just watch him be so peaceful, he works out at a horse farm. And watching him work, he's so much more comfortable with those horses than I am. I don't know horse language. So I get nervous.

Curtis Gray: 30:50

I will also say the horse farms more for deep pressure, is a lot of lifting a lot of work. He may not be too prone to want it, but it's better for him in the long run, because he's so hyper active, that it helps really bring him down for a period of time, tire him out.

Selina Gray: 31:08

And it also works because Philip was exposed to horses and horses, he had horse therapy as a child, he's very comfortable. He brushed his arm, he does all of that. And then the most calm, the most contentment seen him there. He got to clean like the horse saddles with the leather, and the straps and all of that.

Patrick Cadigan: 31:36

And how did you guys come across that job?

Selina Gray: 31:38

Truthfully, it's just talking to people, it's networking, and then somebody finds out. And you're like, oh, that's kind of how this job here happened. I was speaking with the principal. And we were talking about the shortage with custodians. And like when you have one custodian during the day, and there are so many classrooms who were who were being shorted like you just couldn't get to it. So no toilet paper or no paper towels. We were talking about how I don't remember how the conversation came up. But that since COVID, Philip had lost some of his job opportunities. And the principal was like, huh, any chance he would want to do this? And he told me what his thought was. And I said, if you can make that happen, I'm willing to wager that Phillip and Curtis would like to do that. And it's just fantastic. So...

Curtis Gray: 32:33

Yeah, it just it opens the door, I think self-directed opens the door, because it puts the power back into the parents, you're not having to work through government agency, you know, the, it's almost kind of like, you know, if your roof falls off your house, you get either the money that it was quite equated with in a cheque, or you get somebody in the insurance company pays for it. This is like giving the people the check, and they get to do what they want. And I feel it allows for creativity, there's so much just in this little area. But I mean, you expand further, there's so many things that can be done. I mean, there's so many people like Philip who feels the need to pick up stuff on the sidewalk, you got Columbia Association that cleans up all the walking paths. These are just things you just have to think outside the box of what a job equals to.

Selina Gray: 33:23

Yeah, that, I will say that that is a benefit. Now remember, as someone who came from an adjustment training center, I see the benefits, I do see the benefits, because I do come from that. But I have to say one of the benefits of this self-directed is the jobs that you get, you can get them tailored for your adult for your adult who's looking for a job, it's not them trying to fit into what's available with agency know, you can snoop around and you can talk to people to find out, hey, here would be a great job. Let me tell you why my adult client would be good for fit for you. And that that that is a huge benefit that I really enjoy.

Meghan Smallwood: 34:06

I love that you said that the parents empowered because I know when parents consider self directed, they're like, oh my god, it's too much work. I can't handle this. I have a job, you know, but I think when you lay it out like that, that you're really kind of shaping it to what works for your, your young adult. And I think just going out and talking and starting with people that you might already know, you know, like talking to someone from church talking to a neighbor, you just you don't know until you you ask and it could lead to something else. So I love I love that.

Selina Gray: 34:45

Yeah, and you can find jobs for anybody based on my life. I know you know this story. I had an adult client, who all he liked to do the only thing that was reinforcing to him in the world that I could find was tearing paper he would sit and tear paper, he'd do anything for you to let him tear paper. I don't know why it's what he'd liked. But all I thought was what kind of a job am I gonna get what kind of a job. Finally it hit me one day and we went and approached a movie theater. And he would work, we I approached the movie theater, I explained that I would come in as the job coach, I would teach them the job, they just have to train me, I will stay as long as it took to train my client. And he would clean the movie theater, he would take out the trash and everything for one hour of being able to tell people theater to rip. And so he had a built in reward system in that, and it was part of the job, part of the job. And that's half, half, I think when you can get a job for a client, for your adult client, or your adult child that is tailored for them. I think seeing they're not only in their successes.

Curtis Gray: 35:57

But not only that, too, you also have control on who is taking your child out. Because you get a family friend, you can get somebody who, you know, really knows him or her. And they feel comfortable, and they would get the most out of them. Maybe you're not able to do it, because you're the broker of the finances and everything coming in. But you can find a cousin, an aunt, a grandparent, maybe I've retired grandma or grandfather who just wants to get out and get, you know, hours in the day to do stuff, they could be spending time with their grandchild. Right and doing it, it allows more, like I said, more...

Meghan Smallwood: 36:37

Flexibility for sure.

Curtis Gray: 36:39

Yes.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:40

And I think too, it's really neat. I know someone who loves reading. And instead and then as a parent was loved nervous about going to a business with them. So they would actually go to different businesses, organizations and bring it home. And they had a whole shredding shredder set up like I'm industrial sized one. And they would do it there. But it was their way of, you know, being part of the community by advertising, they had to go approach the business, you know, they made a little flyer up, they go get it, you know, they go back and get more of it's just their way of doing it and at their comfort level.

Selina Gray: 37:21

So that is fantastic. Um, the other thing that parents can do is parents can put feelers out to each other. So if doing self directed, can be overwhelming, which, truthfully, the financial side, everything that goes involved with that getting started Wow. Yeah. But so then what I see, are parents working together and somebody who's really gifted in that, hey, how would you feel about you taking you understand that process, so you take care of that for like four kids, then this parent has the time during the day to go find jobs? And they can identify jobs like they can? There's a lot that can be done? Do

Meghan Smallwood: 38:02

you have any resources of other parents or any connections? Is there any groups that are out there? Because I know parents always ask, Where can they find others doing this?

Selina Gray: 38:12

So um, I do actually have, I have one parent who has a group of people that she needs. It's a social group she has put together, but that's a nice family connection. Otherwise, it's been word of mouth. And it's only a couple of people who are connected to one another, I see this area growing for parents if they want to, and understanding also, you're not limited. So like if Kirk's child is a child who is in a wheelchair and nonverbal and activating switches, and my child's like Phillip, it doesn't mean Phil has one kind of job and this child has another. The truth is they pair really well and the agency I used to work at, that's what we have them do. So a student like Phillip who has the motor skills, and he can do it. He can you know those packages that come in your microwaves and fridges when you buy papers and extra parts, while my clients used to put those together. And so Philip would be able to take that paper, take this one take that add in to Spline and three screws, put them in the bag, put them over, and then there was pneumatic sealer. And so the client next time was a client who was in a wheelchair who was activating switches. And they knew as soon as Phillip put or as soon as this client put the package there, they hit their button, the sealer sealed the package, and then the client could put it in the finish. Like there are ways that our children, your adult children can work together in jobs. And there are ways that parents can coordinate with each other to make it happen. I think there's all sorts that could be done. And our adult students and adult clients can...

Meghan Smallwood: 39:52

Absolutely.

Selina Gray: 39:53

Be very successful and happy and more independent.

Curtis Gray: 39:58

And at the same time too, you could look at, I mean, it just is snowballing from what you guys are saying, the parents can even get together and buy, you know, like a house if you wanted to kids to be put somewhere. So now you're not even having to worry about another organization for housing. If you were to take this whole platform and just kind of fill it in with all the parts.

Selina Gray: 40:20

That's true that a team of families can come together, purchase a house, use the funding to staff the house, to take care of, because the truth is that that is very normal that your kid would move out of your home and into their own butt with a roommate. Absolutely. A roommate, yes. There's nothing wrong with that. And I know that's hard. That's a hard decision for our parents to make quite often. Because you're like, yeah, they're 21, but really, cognitively, they're like, four, I wouldn't send my four, it doesn't matter.

Meghan Smallwood: 40:55

Well, and that's why it's so important to start the transition process. So early, start thinking of it. And I know a lot of parents, it's scary, I get it. But you know, thinking about these things, and starting to brainstorm and you know, what, what would they what would make them happy? What would they like to do? And how can I go about that, and like you said, reaching out to other parents, because I feel like parents are the best resource. And that's why we do so many parent panels, because they give so many good tips and suggestions because they lived it.

Selina Gray: 41:23

Because they lived it. And it is fantastic. That's why I love talking with parents. And I love talking with parents about my background, in residential at the adjustment training center, and even today, with what we do with Phil, because I think that's how, because then you do you get excited get fired up, and you realize, ooh, somebody had that idea. And somebody have that idea. Oh, I think I could try that. I got our students a job at a food pantry. And then while we'd been working at that food pantry, we discovered that they also needed help with their recycling within the church, the food pantry was at a church. So my students started learning, oh, here's what we're going to do. We're going to stock the shelves, break down the boxes, and take them all out to the recycling, which happened to be down and around the corner. Fantastic. They did that. And once they had that down, we started going through the church to get all of the blue recycling buckets to take, like you never know where things are going.

Meghan Smallwood: 42:18

And a lot of times to you make that relationship with a business, you know, start with one job. And then as they get to know the student, as you get to know them, you kind of branch out from there and say, Hey, do you need help with this? Or I noticed that you know, this is piling up. Can we try that? Yeah.

Selina Gray: 42:32

Yes. That's how I got a job at the same church with the food pantry, I found out that their Sunday school, they make these packets for K to two classes three to five. And it's for kids who are too late for Sunday school. And they had coloring sheets and crayons inside these baggies and a sticker on the front. And so I found out that they would have people stay after church and whatnot to create these things. And I was like, guess what, I bet my students could do that. And we could turn them in every time we come to the food pantry on Fridays. And that is how it happened. And it was an excellent job. It was a huge multi step job. But it saved the church time and energy. They gave us the supplies. We turn them in on a Friday when we come to do the food pantry.

Meghan Smallwood: 43:25

And I think going into the business like how can we help you not? Here's a disabled adult that we want to try and find a job for I think changing the mindset to like he's here to give back to the community. What can we do to help the community? I think it kind of makes them realize, oh, they are a meaningful, that could be a meaningful volunteer or employee even you know, they're there as just like everyone else to do a job and to help out.

Selina Gray: 43:51

Exactly. It isn't charity, you're not giving these clients charity. They are here you have a need. Our client can take care of that need. We're filling that need, right? It's this little symbiotic relationships. It is not charity.

Curtis Gray: 44:05

No, not at all. No. You'd be honest with you. In my time, I've never been when approaching for jobs. I will say I've never had someone look at it as charity. They had a hard time wrapping around the fact that they were getting two employees for one, you know, like, they were like, how do I that was more of the harder parts. But ya know, it was um, it's just yeah, there is like I said, it's still in the infancy. So working around insurances and that kind of stuff to get them into more mainstream jobs or being in the community because I mean, us being on a horse farm or not really mingling with people. And that would be more...

Selina Gray: 44:46

Which works for Philip, by the way.

Curtis Gray: 44:47

It would, yes. But if I had another client? I don't know if that would work so much.

Selina Gray: 44:51

Right? But his other job was a library again, great environment for Phillip

Patrick Cadigan: 45:00

Yeah fantastic. Well, yes, you were right. Megan, when you said that this was going to be different. That was a very poor. That was really cool. I enjoyed that. All right, so here we go.

Meghan Smallwood: 45:22

So we really appreciate you taking the time to listen to this podcast. But be sure to like and follow the podcast so that you don't miss any of our upcoming ones. And we have some good ones coming along, too. Be sure to tell their families about us so that nobody is missing out. And please send us messages. We love that.

Patrick Cadigan: 45:38

We do appreciate the feedback. And we plan to incorporate the feedback that we get into upcoming episodes, which we've already done. So yes, absolutely feedback. Send it to us. We love it. And with that being said, and as Megan, we are done with another one.

Meghan Smallwood: 45:52

Yeah, have a good one, guys. Thanks for joining us.

Patrick Cadigan: 45:54

Thank you so much. Bye bye