Patrick Cadigan: 0:19

All right. I think I have hit the record button, Meghan.

Meghan Smallwood: 0:25

Awesome. We're back in action.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:26

We are back in action. We are here we are recording another episode. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to P2Transition or Post-Secondary Transition. I am one of the hosts. My name is Patrick Cadigan, who is my co-host.

Meghan Smallwood: 0:40

I am the co-host, Meghan Smallwood. And thank you for joining us.

Patrick Cadigan: 0:44

Fantastic. All right, so we were gonna, we're here to do another interview. But before we get to that, Meghan, typically, we offer an explanation around what post-secondary transition is. Do you want to start us off?

Meghan Smallwood: 1:03

Sure, thanks. So we have many transitions as we go through the school ages, post-secondary transition really focuses between ages 14 through 21. It seeks to answer the question, what do I want for my child after they leave school? So we're looking to help answer that question by asking parents to think long term, some of the milestones the research resources and the goals they might have.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:28

How do we define long term? What do you want your child to be doing after the school bus stops coming? Which is different for everybody. It's a completely individualized experience. And along with that individuality can come from loneliness, in some cases, a sense of isolation. But, there are other families who are going through this probably at the same time you are.

Meghan Smallwood: 1:49

And along the journey, you need to focus on the milestones. Some of these milestones are built around timeframes, and other cases help determine them. What are some milestones to talk of using your child's school experiences to help with doing research and using the resources at your disposal, including the school transition specialist and other teachers can really help? It's a lot of information, there's a lot to consider, we realize that and in many cases, answers will not always immediately present themselves, there might be some give and take, there might they be things you will do that you do not have the desired outcome. Trying to do all at once can feel consuming. So we're hoping to help clear away some of that fog through the process.

Patrick Cadigan: 2:29

All right. And speaking of clearing away some of the fog, we had a chance to interview another parent who has been through the transition process. Meghan, do you want to open it up and tell us a little bit about who we're interviewing?

Meghan Smallwood: 2:41

Absolutely, we were fortunate enough to sit down with Pam Parris, who is a wonderful advocate and parent for her son, who exited the school system just a couple years ago. And she's here to tell us about her transition journey and share some of the challenges she was faced with and the great positive outcomes she has for him.

Patrick Cadigan: 3:01

So without further ado, let's move on to that interview.

Meghan Smallwood: 3:12

Thank you for coming, Pam.

Pam Paris: 3:14

Sure. I'm excited to be here.

Meghan Smallwood: 3:16

So do you mind sharing a little background information first about Mark?

Pam Paris: 3:20

No, Mark, is now 22. And a so totally out of the school system. But he was diagnosed with autism before he was two, actually closer to one at my insistence with the Child Find people, but that's a whole different story. He attended a MINC-P at a local elementary school at Howard County Elementary School. And that's, uh...

Patrick Cadigan: 3:43

When you say MINC-P? What does that mean for parents who don't, who don't know?

Pam Paris: 3:47

Yeah, that's a Multiple Intensive Needs Classroom- Preschool, so before kindergarten, and it's a classroom that has both students with disabilities as well as peers. So we attended that, and then we actually had moved away to another state, and he did kindergarten through fourth grade in another state. And then I we had an incident at that school, and I decided homeschool would be the best choice for him. So we did that until actually through ninth grade. And then we came back to Howard County and he enrolled in a local high school under their ALS program, and...

Meghan Smallwood: 4:29

Which is the Academic Life Skills.

Pam Paris: 4:31

Yes, Academic Life Skills, which was a really hard decision decision for me as a parent. But I knew that he was going for the social aspects and the things that I couldn't give him one on one and homeschool. So, and he loved it. So we did that. And then he walked with his class when he was 18. I have a picture of him and a cap and gown that he loves. And then we did community connection. In this program for two years, that was also through Howard County. And then we did the Project SEARCH program.

Meghan Smallwood: 5:16

Awesome, and just jump to it. What is he doing right now?

Pam Paris: 5:20

Right now he is employed. He has two jobs. He has worked at a local restaurant for since like 2017, I believe. So he still works there. And last year, I took him to a job fair for Howard County Public Schools. And they hired him as a food and nutrition assistant. So he works in the cafeteria of a local high school.

Patrick Cadigan: 5:46

And then what kind of job what kind of work does he do at the restaurant?

Pam Paris: 5:49

At the restaurant, they actually, this restaurant was wonderful. They created a job for him. He is the "sauce guy." He fills all of their little to go sauce ramekin containers, as well as their big sauce bottles. He's that he has been doing that for years. It took him a little bit to get fast at it. But now he's really good at it. And he's the "sauce guy."

Patrick Cadigan: 6:11

And what restaurant is it?

Pam Paris: 6:13

Its Mission BBQ on Route 40.

Patrick Cadigan: 6:15

Cool. Ok. Good deal.

Pam Paris: 6:17

Ask about Mark the"sauce guy." They'll tell you.

Patrick Cadigan: 6:18

All right.

Meghan Smallwood: 6:19

And he'll sing along.

Pam Paris: 6:21

Yes. If you go at noon, all the everyone comes out even from the back and does the anthem. And that's his favorite part of the day.

Meghan Smallwood: 6:28

Love it. And that's what I love. Pam, you go out and you don't let anything stop you you find and conquer for Mark. And it's great.

Pam Paris: 6:38

Thank you. That was yeah, I read all the statistics. And I go Yeah, nope, not my kid, we're gonna do this. And we're gonna do this, and it's gonna be like this.

Meghan Smallwood: 6:54

So at what age? Did you really start thinking about that post-secondary transition for Mark.

Pam Paris: 7:00

So if you were in any IEP meetings with me when he was like, five, they would say, Do you have any more questions? And I would say yes, I want to know what's it going to be like when he's 10? And 15? And 20? I need to know, I need to plan and they would, of course, laugh at me. Because they can't tell you that then. And they probably wouldn't have been right. Had they even guessed. So. But I've always wondered, what's it going, you know, what, what, what are we going to do? How are we going to do this? But I didn't really know that transition was a thing. Until we got here to high school, which was actually his 10th grade year. A little late.

Meghan Smallwood: 7:33

Yeah, yeah. Cuz typically, we like it, you know, 8th grade, when they're turning 14, start the conversation. And not everyone's ready to talk about them. But we love when parents are interested in want to hear some stuff.

Patrick Cadigan: 7:46

And actually, Megan and I have had the discussion that there are going to be some changes along those lines over the next I'm not even sure if it's a couple of months, but they are now starting to make that transition discussion, a bigger piece of the IEP. And so we're still getting information on it. But it'll be interesting to see like first the rollout, and then to what that information looks like for families and then how it's pushed out.

Pam Paris: 8:14

Yeah, that makes sense. As soon as we were back in into Howard County Schools, and he was in 10th grade, and he was in ALS, I knew he wasn't going to graduate. And my first thought was then okay, he needs work experience. He needs work experience and they had programs for work study, he, he tried all kinds of things. He worked at a grocery store, he worked at Petco, he worked, he made pizza boxes, he did all kinds of things. And each one I think taught him something about work and how how to do it.

Meghan Smallwood: 8:45

And that was the CCE or the Career and Community Exploration program which we have in high schools.

Pam Paris: 8:51

Yeah, and I thought that was great for him and, and he got to see what he likes to and not just gain skills.

Patrick Cadigan: 8:58

And being somebody that doesn't know your son just did he articulate that did I mean could he come home and tell you like...

Pam Paris: 9:05

He could he could come home and at least say he would tell me about the cats at Petco. There was a cat that he loved. And he would say I went to Petco today and I got to see the kitty, you know, so he would tell me that he certainly didn't say I'm gaining work skills or Nope, nothing like that. He did not. I don't think that... Mark loves everyone and everything and everything is fun and new and exciting to him. So he is anywhere you take him. He's just like, Okay, what are we doing here? That's just how he is.

Meghan Smallwood: 9:33

And I think the feedback being on the other end of it from the school, seeing firsthand what he excelled at. And even though he would tell you he liked it, you could clearly tell by body language, or you know the outcome of the job that it was not for him. So I think that communication between school and family definitely helped.

Pam Paris: 9:51

Definitely helped. It was nice to have a special educator who I really loved and trusted and knew that had my son's best interests at heart. And that's part of the reason why I am now a special educator as well.

Meghan Smallwood: 10:06

Yep, come full circle, yep. So I think when parents start with the whole, preparing for post secondary transition, they just don't even know where to go for the resources. I mean, you lived it. What what did you find the most helpful? And where did you get your information from?

Pam Paris: 10:30

I always felt like I didn't know what I was doing. Period, I got the most help and information from my special educator when I had a good one. And from other parents. That was how I found out about things. And I was pretty proactive, I went to Transition Fairs and things like that. And even then I was overwhelmed. I didn't know what all these letters were and what these agencies were and what they were supposed to do and how to access them. I didn't know any of that. It was all very confusing to me. But every once in a while I got a tip from somebody or a parent would say, Hey, have you looked at this? And like, if you focus on one thing at a time, that was easier for me?

Patrick Cadigan: 11:11

And then how would you discover the parents? Like, were you meeting them in social circles? Were you meeting them at school? Like, how did you how did you find parents, so to speak?

Pam Paris: 11:21

Gosh, okay, so going way back when he was little, little, little, and we were in Howard County, I ran a moms night out group for moms of children with disabilities. So I knew some from there. And then I knew parents of students in the classes. And yeah, it was just, it's just this weird network of parents that is kind of out there underground. And you talk to one parent, and they'll be like, Oh, well, have you heard of this? Or you should talk to so and so let me see if I can give you their number.

Patrick Cadigan: 12:02

And as we've moved into the digital age, have you found Facebook or any of the social media platforms to be useful? Are you still like, you know, face to face? Or like, you know, going out and meeting people and things?

Pam Paris: 12:15

I'll have to say, Yes, I do use Facebook, I use and then you know, you meet people, if you're if your child is involved with Special Olympics, you meet those parents or the Autism Society, you meet those parents and like, everybody has a story, and everybody has a piece or everybody has a thing that worked for them. And I feel like if you share enough information you get what you need.

Meghan Smallwood: 12:37

Yeah. Or they'll put you in touch with or they'll...

Pam Paris: 12:39

Yeah, yeah. And everybody's so nice about like, helping.

Meghan Smallwood: 12:45

Yeah, absolutely. Because we're all all in it together.

Pam Paris: 12:47

Yep, for sure.

Meghan Smallwood: 12:57

So what I'm sure there's many, what has been some of the more challenging milestones for you through this journey?

Pam Paris: 13:08

There are a lot of challenges, you are correct. Gosh, I don't I'm not sure even where to begin. I'm just gonna talk from like high school on for the transition challenges have been, transportation has always been a huge challenge. Because although my son can physically drive my car, I taught him when he was 14. He's done it a lot. But he cannot pass the test to get a license. So transportation is always an issue. It's always in the back of my mind. Okay, if we do this, how's it going to get there? What how are we going to do this? So that's one in high school, I felt like the Transition Specialist that every high school has, I felt like mine was either non-existent or not helpful. And so I felt like I was just flying blind. So those were big challenges. I think finding a job was a challenge, a real job, a paid job.

Meghan Smallwood: 14:11

What about your experience with SSI or Supplemental Security Income?

Pam Paris: 14:15

SSI? I didn't want to do it at my because, uh, you get the packet and it's like 20 pages and you're like, "Okay, really is this where my time is best spent?" But it was a good thing to do. I found it to be as many government agencies are very hoop-jumping exercise, fill out this paper and then we're going to lose it and you can fill it out again in six months, and then we'll call you again until you we don't have it. It's that sort of thing. If you're going to do it, keep copies of everything you fill out before you hand it in to anybody copy it, because they're going to lose it. And they sent me to a doctor who interviewed and what do you call it? that looked at my son and, and she spent quite a bit of time with them. And she came to me afterwards. And she said, I'm really sorry to tell you this, but your son has autism. And I was like, really? Now you don't say, I mean, as if I didn't know this, just so anyway, it was it was that sort of thing? And you're just like, Okay, why am I here? Like, what? This is what we have to do in order to get this. And then I didn't get approved. And then they gave me back SSI. And then they said, Well, you can only have $2,000, but we've just put eight in your account. I'm like, what it just, the rules are crazy. But it is helpful to have. So it's probably worth that horrible packet.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:46

Does he still have it, since he's working?

Pam Paris: 15:48

He does still get it. So I report his income every month from all of his jobs. And every month, they send me a thing saying, Okay, well, based on his income for this month, he'll get this much next month. And it's gone down considerably since when we originally got in, he didn't really have a job.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:07

But he still has to have $2000 in his account.

Pam Paris: 16:10

He cannot have more than $2000 in his account.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:12

So what are you end up doing about that?

Pam Paris: 16:15

Well, he spends his money, because that's what he needs to do. So it's gone are the days when I pick up the restaurant tab, or I pay for the vacation airfare or whatever, he pays for his life expenses, which is what he's supposed to be doing with that money.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:31

Great.

Pam Paris: 16:32

So that's what happens with that.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:41

Along the lines of, you said, filling out paperwork and people losing things, what has your experience been with DDA or the Developmental Disabilities Administration?

Pam Paris: 16:52

Yeah, that was pretty much the same. Another big packet. And so they like approved him when he was I don't know, younger than 18. But I didn't feel like I ever really got any help. Like, they like, okay, they send you a thing saying, yes, it's all been approved. But then they don't say, here's what we're going to do. There's no like, introduction, there's no nice printed introduction letter that says, so by the way, we're going to provide this, this, this and this for you. That never happened.

Meghan Smallwood: 17:22

I will say it has been confusing, because they send like basically the same packet out to every parent, whether you were approved for current request or future needs or denied. And, you know, it's the appeal process. It's this and that. So parent, a lot of parents I know have gotten confused and going, Wait, we got denied. I said, No, no, you're on the list. But they're just sending you this, just because nobody's paying attention. I don't know. Right? So I can understand where that would get a little confusing. But typically, you know, you get on their waiting list. And things don't happen until 21, after 21. But it's hard when you're not getting that constant contact and anything's been given to you for...

Pam Paris: 18:05

I don't even need constant contact. But I would like a timeline maybe or, you know, hey, when he's 21 will do this, or just tell me something.

Meghan Smallwood: 18:13

And I think that's where the transition specialist comes in helpful to be able to provide that so they that you know how important DDA will be after 21. It may not seem like it now, because they're not there. But it's definitely important to keep them, you know, keep them in mind and stay in touch with them. Yes, I have heard that Transition Specialists can be helpful in that area. And do you have you had multiple coordinators? Because I know a lot of parents lately, have complained about the fact that the Coordinator of Community Service has changed hands many times. And I know it has not gotten any better.

Pam Paris: 18:48

About monthly... Yeah... They changed. Yeah. And, yeah, monthly, every month, I would get an email saying hi, I'm so and so the new and I'm like,

Patrick Cadigan: 19:00

When that happens, do you feel like you're starting all over again? Or do they...

Pam Paris: 19:03

Absolutely!

Patrick Cadigan: 19:04

Ok.

Pam Paris: 19:05

You're starting all over again.

Patrick Cadigan: 19:06

So they don't. It's not like there's a, there's a, there's not like a transition as you are okay, you're...

Pam Paris: 19:12

No.

Patrick Cadigan: 19:13

Your explaining yourself all over again.

Pam Paris: 19:14

Yes, they are not good at transitions either.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:16

And I find; which is kind of funny. Where I find that interesting, because I would think that there's a database where everything is uploaded, and they can just easily switch over from one coordinator to the next but it does not seem to be the case. Because coordinators are often looking for that documentation, you've already given another one. So back to your point about keeping copies of everything, it's very important to have that file on hand. So you can easily just send it off again to the new coordinator.

Pam Paris: 19:43

Everything.

Patrick Cadigan: 19:43

That was something that came up when we talked to our last family that in specific to the conversation around SSI, but they they were like you know, saying like, you know carry copies of everything with you, you know, they were very specific about like things that you would need and and it it did, it sounded like a lot, it sounded very overwhelming.

Pam Paris: 20:03

It's a full time job to have a student with disabilities under your care. It's a full time job. So if you have another one you have two.

Meghan Smallwood: 20:10

This is true. And for the development, Division of Rehabilitation Services or DORS, did Mark have any experiences with them?

Pam Paris: 20:18

Yes. But again, I don't really know exactly what it was they did or were supposed to do. We had an interview with them. They marked him as like Ticket to Work or something Ticket to Work. I think

Meghan Smallwood: 20:29

One of their programs. Yeah...

Pam Paris: 20:30

Yup. They seemed much more focused on finding him a job. And at that point, I had already found him a job. So I didn't really I wasn't really sure what exactly they were doing,

Meghan Smallwood: 20:43

I feel like you're in a unique situation, because you were proactive, you went out and did what a lot of the organizations would be doing. So it was kind of, you know, a moot point. But yeah, typically, it's more of that short term competitive employment, find a job and, you know, make sure things are going well, given those experiences.

Pam Paris: 21:03

Yeah. And I kind of felt like, Okay, if he was going to have a job, and I know transportation is an issue, therefore, the job needs to be near my house, so that I can do a lot of the running. And so I figured I was the best person to find the job that would suit our family and my son the best, right? And that's what I did.

Patrick Cadigan: 21:30

What process did you use to find your son a job?

Pam Paris: 21:33

Oh, you're gonna laugh? Okay. I, I spent a lot of time with my son. He goes with me grocery shopping wherever. So I would take him on errands and I was consciously looking for places where peers worked places where he knew people from school, working there. And it turned out every time we went into Mission BBQ, somebody behind the counter said Hi, Mark. I was like, okay, he knows people here. Well, let's see how this goes. So one day I walked into Mission BBQ. I ordered my meal, I talked to the manager, and I said, Hi, I have a son with autism. He'd like to work here, will you hire him. And the manager was wonderful. He said, come here, let's have lunch and talk. And he sat down with me. And we had lunch. And we talked about my son. And he hired him. And he's worked there for four years now. They love him, and he loves them.

Meghan Smallwood: 22:25

And you're right. I mean, the community where he lives and knows people. And frequently. I mean, that's a great place to look. Because it's also you know, he's comfortable. They're they're comfortable with him already. And yeah, it's a great.

Pam Paris: 22:38

Yeah, it was a great fit. That was the first time I ever tried that. Before I had children. I was shy. I'm not so shy anymore, but

Meghan Smallwood: 22:46

You're not shy.

Pam Paris: 22:47

I was I was, I was the person who was like, Oh, I can't call this number and make a doctor's appointment. It's too scary. Now I can walk in and say, Hey, you want to hire my kid? Because he'd be great.

Meghan Smallwood: 22:58

So now with his current job, when he started, how did that go? Did he have a job coach? Did he have anyone supporting him?

Pam Paris: 23:05

So do you mean Mission or the high school?

Meghan Smallwood: 23:07

The high school.

Pam Paris: 23:08

The high school; so with the high school, I kind of did it again, I took him to a job fair. And I said this, he is going to be a great employee, we are in this area for the next 30 years, you will have this person for the next 30 years if you hire him. And they worked with me on where did I want to put him they tried to put him where I was. And we couldn't do that. Because the hours were different mine and his and I couldn't stop teaching to run home and take my kids. So anyway, they the manager of the cafeteria was wonderful. She worked with me because he didn't have a job coach right away. She worked with me and asked me, you know, what do I need to know how do I do this? And then she would call and if you know anybody with autism, she she called me one day and she said, she has more capacity restrictions. I'm like, What do you mean? She's like, well, he won't lift the boxes. I'm like, won't lift the box. She's like, No, he says they're heavy. I said, Oh, no problem. The answer to their heavy is but you're strong. She goes so I just say that and he'll do it. So that's what happened. She she called me next day. She's like, worked like a charm. He now lifts the boxes, like okay, so she worked with me a lot. And then he got a job coach, which sort of seemed backwards, or, I mean, he needed one more in the beginning. He doesn't really need one now. I think she checks in with him like once a month. Where's the job coach from Ark, okay, he's getting services through the ark. And that was because of the Project SEARCH connection. They only took students who were in Project SEARCH because they were full but they already had a relationship with those students. So he's getting that from Ark. He's also getting transportation from art. Oh great, which was the answer to a prayer

Meghan Smallwood: 25:04

So you kind of answered my next question on positives and the challenges since he's exited. Anything else come to mind?

Pam Paris: 25:12

Now one of the challenges since he's exited, is social life for him. Because he's, I mean, he's always does things with our family, we travel, we travel internationally, we kayak, we rock climbing, we do things. But he doesn't do them with friends. And he doesn't plan them. So I have to plan his social life or teach him to plan which is of course, my M.O. is to teach him to do it. He has a couple of friends from Project Search, and they have a text thread together. And there's a young lady in that thread. And she's the planner. So she'll say...

Meghan Smallwood: 25:49

I think I know what lady you're referring to.

Pam Paris: 25:51

So she'll say, we're going to the mall, do you want to come? Or we're going to do this do you and that's his his social outlet.

Meghan Smallwood: 25:57

And does he still I know us participating at Barrier Free...

Pam Paris: 26:00

He loves Barrier Free.

Meghan Smallwood: 26:01

Mind telling a little bit of that program.

Pam Paris: 26:03

So Barrier Free, they call it a life skills studio, and we found it, it's in Sykesville. We found it not too long after he turned 21. Two lovely young ladies run it. And they they have a program, I guess you'd call it programs or classes that that people can sign up for it's for people over 21 with disabilities. And they do things like they do community outings, they all go out for ice cream, or they go to a restaurant and have a meal. They do what they call Social Club, once a month, they do something really cool. My son went to the Renaissance Festival with them last weekend, and loved it and they've taken him to DC they've gone. And October they're doing like one of those Field of Screams thing things you would do with your friends, you know, but they also do lessons like making friends or tipping or just life skills that you don't really get in high school so much. Or maybe you don't get all that you need in high school. So they kind of extend that and that has been a great find. He loves it there. He loves the people. He's excited to go. He uses his SSI money to pay for the school lessons. So...

Meghan Smallwood: 27:20

They had an art show, right?

Pam Paris: 27:22

They did, they do an art show every year they raise money. I think by selling they sell coffee in their store. I think that's one of their fundraisers. They do an art show. They do some stuff every year. Oh, they went to Toby's dinner theater and saw SpongeBob the musical which everybody liked.

Meghan Smallwood: 27:40

I bet he loved that.

Pam Paris: 27:41

He did. So that's been a great social thing for him.

Patrick Cadigan: 27:55

One question that I have in you kind of, we kind of went this direction earlier, but I want to kind of come back to it was what resource...Okay, so you talked about how the parents were helpful. But were there any other like outside resources that you found particularly helpful? Or can you like kind of like, look at a resource or see a resource or hear about a resource and just kind of Oh, yeah, no, that's not gonna work? Or that, like, how do you judge a good resource I guess is the point is the question that I want to know.

Pam Paris: 28:26

That's a really good question. I'm not sure I have a good answer for that. I am, either by nature or certainly by learned habit. A researcher, I look into stuff a lot. For my son's for anything. And there. It's a lot to wade through. There's a lot of information out there. And it's hard to decide. What's the good one? I know, I had to pick a service provider, originally, and I didn't know what to pick. And each one presents themselves as you know, the perfect one. And then you pick one and you find out your person changes every month, and it's not so good. And you're like, Oh, well, okay. I didn't have good resources for that. Nobody said, Oh, you want this one over this one? I felt like it was luck of the draw. Yeah. Does that answer your question? I don't really have even the Transition Fairs. Like I said, we're overwhelming. All these people want to tell you how good their product or services and I'm not even sure which product or service we need, let alone which one of those to pick.

Meghan Smallwood: 29:34

Right.

Pam Paris: 29:35

You know what I mean? It's a lot.

Meghan Smallwood: 29:37

Now, I can understand that. Do you think? I mean, now webinars and workshops virtually are so common. Do you think if you were doing it now that would be a helpful tool, or more so than just having a book of everything?

Pam Paris: 29:54

Yeah, I do think I I have seen some webinars and I think They are helpful. But again, it's a time thing too. I'm full time. full time worker, single mom, two adult kids, one of whom I need to balance his life with my own. So it's a lot. It's also like, how much time do I have to devote to watching these things are going to these things on my Saturday, which is my day off, because I just worked all week. That's a lot.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:31

So back to Mark, what is something? What would you like to see for his future? Is there anything moving forward that you really have this, or Mark has for himself a goal of doing?

Pam Paris: 30:45

So, I'm not sure Mark has a goal other than smile every day and live his life to the fullest. He is very happy with pretty much any situation he finds himself in, he does get a little nervous and anxious if it's a new situation. But I My goal was to get him a real job. And my definition of a real job was something with benefits and a pension. And I feel like I did that. So I feel like I've met my goal. It's all good. I also wanted him in education, because our whole family is in education. And that way, we have travel time in the summer. And it's not the one person working a restaurant who we can't go to the beach because of that was one of my goals as well. I don't think he has any goals. I think he knows that. He's working and he loves his job. And he understands that he gets paid for what he does, and he can spend his money on these things. I think he's good.

Meghan Smallwood: 31:42

What about housing?

Pam Paris: 31:43

I don't want to talk about housing.

Meghan Smallwood: 31:46

I didn't think you did.

Pam Paris: 31:47

I don't. I don't. So I have created my home where there is an apartment in the basement, a two bedroom apartment. So it could be for Mark and a friend. So that is my plan A; however, I think if you asked Mark, he would say he wants his own apartment and he doesn't want it in mom's house. So that's why I don't want to talk about that.

Meghan Smallwood: 32:11

Well, I like your plan A to get used to it. And then you know...

Pam Paris: 32:15

Yeah, I don't again, I don't know how one would go about that. I don't know what list to get him on to get him housing, all of those things I would have to look into. He has said to me before Well, I'm gonna go live with my friends x and x, both of whom the x's were female in that situation, but that's what any 22 year old guy would say, right? So I haven't given up on the driving thing either. I am firmly convinced that my son could drive. And as he matures, we might try taking the test. Again, it's the written test. That's the issue. And I understand you can have it read to him and things like that. So we may try that again. So driving and housing are two that I don't really know what to do with but they are on the horizon somewhere.

Patrick Cadigan: 33:10

One of the things that we talked about when we talked with our last family was is that if you were speaking to a new parent, like someone who was going through this process just now like starting what are like, what are some things like because you've already peppered them throughout our discussion, but is there anything like that really stands out to you? Oh, you know what, I wish that I knew that.

Pam Paris: 33:34

There's a lot I still don't think I know, I still feel like I've muddled through. Not like I knew what I was doing and went after certain things. Things I wish I knew, I think I wish I had known more about what DDA offers what you actually get out of them? Because I think I maybe would have been able to say, hey, what about this? And I didn't have that knowledge. I didn't ever say hey, what about this? I think going to the transition fairs is good to at least expose you to what's out there and they have them like at least once a year, if not twice up in October, I thought there was a fall one. So it's definitely worth going to that and start going early. Like when the kid is, I don't know, 12, 13, 14. Even if you don't really engage one on one with any of the people in the booths just kind of walk around and get the feel of who's there and and maybe what they do and then go from there. I think I could have spent more time doing that and I might have had more useful knowledge and never stopped looking at you know your kid best and never stopped looking for what you think is the right fit. I wouldn't wait for the transition specialist or the special educator to find a job. If you have an idea of what you want. Go for for it and go try to get him a job. I did it twice, and it worked twice, both times. So it wasn't a big trial and error thing for me, maybe I just got lucky. I didn't have to do it 10 times to get one success. Those two I think are important. And form a partnership with your special educator. I used to call her his school mom, because he had a home mom. And then he had the school mom. And so I didn't have to worry about the school stuff, she would let me know what I needed to do. And I would also stay in touch with her with you know, Hey, Mark went rock climbing this weekend, ask him about it, because that's a conversation starter. That helps them build a relationship. And they need that. Yeah. And he's happy that you if you ask him, he'll show you pictures on his phone of what he did or whatever. And that just builds your relationship. He trusts you. He thinks of you as a friend or the special educator, as a friend. And he, you know, can then share if he's nervous or anxious, he can share that too. Because he already has that trust, yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:07

And thank you, again, Pam, for stopping by and chatting with us sharing your story. We really appreciate you being the advocate you are for your son and telling other parents what you've done. So moving forward, we really would love for you to like and follow our podcast, tell other families about us. Anyone out there who you know is going to be faced with the transition journey soon. Even if it's a few years away, just get them involved and send us messages. We would love to hear your messages, any feedback, any questions, any topics that you'd like for us to cover? We were here to do that for you.

Patrick Cadigan: 36:42

Yeah, we have already gotten some messages. And we're planning on incorporating those into future episodes. We really appreciate the feedback that we've gotten up until this point because we've been able to use it. So yeah. All right. We are. We're done.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:59

We'll see you next time.

Patrick Cadigan: 37:00

See you. Thank you.