Patrick Cadigan: 0:00

Navigating post secondary transitions for students with special needs requires careful planning, informed decision making and proactive involvement in this journey, parents, caregivers guardians, they can be a child's strongest advocate and guide, and their commitment is a powerful force for success. Now, collaborating with organizations that specialize in special education, transition planning, and disability services can provide invaluable assistance in navigating this complex process. Now, as you explore available resources, it is crucial to foster open communication with yourself, your child, educators, professionals, basically anybody who exists in this sphere, and they can help with valuable insights and support. And that's what we're here to talk about. This is the Post Secondary Transition podcast. We have conversations around the process of transition for families of students with disabilities, and I'm one of the hosts. My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am a public school special education teacher. And as always, I have a co host and who would that be?

Meghan Smallwood: 1:06

And I am Meghan Smallwood, and I'm a public school transition coordinator.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:10

All right, so for those longtime listeners, you know, that in our last conversation, we we were so excited to sit down with Think College, that whole conversation just opened up, so many possibilities. So we are very excited to have Amy D'Agati from Mary University of Maryland TerpsEXCEED program; she is the senior faculty specialist center for transitioning career innovation, College of Education, University of Maryland College Park. Amy, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming and sitting and talking with us.

Amy D'Agati: 1:47

Well, thank you for having me.

Meghan Smallwood: 1:49

We have heard so much about TerpsEXCEED from our families and the interest. So it's exciting to be able to talk with you a little bit.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:56

So let's see, Meghan, how do we start off this conversation?

Meghan Smallwood: 2:00

Well, I think it's helpful just to hear a little bit about Amy in general, if you don't mind, like your background, where you started and how you got to TerpsEXCEED.

Amy D'Agati: 2:09

Sure, I guess it was kind of a, it was kind of a long journey. I did not start out in the field of special education. I was in general marketing, I worked for Adidas in Germany, I worked for the Chicago Tribune. But I grew up with one sibling who has intellectual disabilities and autism. So it was just sort of part of how I, how I grew up. And I kind of realized after a while, that it was something that, you know, I was, I was doing stuff on the side after work supporting people disabilities, and I thought, well, maybe this could be something that I do. So I went back and got my master's in rehabilitation counseling, supported employment and transition. So I worked for years as a, as a job developer and doing model demonstration programs and working with it turns out, my favorite population was sort of that, you know, 14, to 25 age group as they were transitioning out of high school, and into post high school stuff for me was typically helping them you know, enter their career, doing job development, helping them, supporting them and getting a job and keeping a job. But I remembered that way back in, in the day after I had gone to college, my brother, who's three years younger than me had said, oh, when am I going to college? You know, and my parents were kind of scrambling, like, oh, not everybody else to go to college. It's okay. And, you know, and he had a teacher who just said, you know, what I was sick of, of the kids who were seniors coming back for three extra years as seniors in high school, because that's not necessarily normal. And she moved on to a college campus. So he went off to a community college, and had that experience of I'm going off to college, and it was just something that was always so great for him. And great in our family and something I sort of tucked in the back of my head. Then I started working with Think College, the folks that think college and I was doing a lot of the sort of the consulting on employment. So all you know, college programs are starting and the real focus should be employment, and could I do training on employment. So I did that for years. And then, you know, started working at the University of Maryland on unemployment grants. That's how I got hired, and then realized we didn't really have this in Maryland. This is a huge gap in services. We do have a lot of those programs for students while they're still in college, that 18 to 21 programs with community based transition services that you know, you stay in, you're supported by your local education agency, but you moved to whatever community colleges in that county, which is great, but there wasn't that option for you've now graduated. You've left the school system and like some of your friends and your siblings. You You apply and you go to college. So it was happening all around us, where and Pennsylvania and New Jersey and Virginia, and nothing here. And now I was at the University of Maryland, the big land grant State University, working in transition and you know, employment for people with disabilities. And I thought, Hmm, this might be the time. This might be, you know, the chance we have to get something started in Maryland.

Meghan Smallwood: 5:28

That's awesome. Like, my I can relate my sister, and I've talked about it before older sister has an intellectual disability. And it was that timeframe when I went to college, and she moved out into a group home. But there was never that thought of, you know, well, what about her post secondary options? You know, it was just kind of we're going into a day program, you're going to a group home, you know, and she definitely could have been a candidate for a program like this. So...

Amy D'Agati: 5:57

Yeah, continuing, like, lifelong learning, for some reason, that population of people with intellectual disabilities, it's like, high school's over and so that...

Meghan Smallwood: 6:06

Work you go, yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 6:07

Right, exactly. And...

Patrick Cadigan: 6:09

Well, I will say that when we were having

Meghan Smallwood: 6:09

...it's funny that the teachers, too, I find, still have a hard time some teachers in our county have a hard time wrapping their head around college as an option. You that conversation, I found myself in the middle of it, like know, if you have parents who will say, I'd really like for them to have that college experience, and I've seen teachers roll their eyes like,"what's that gonna do?" I'm like, No, it's a very strong possibility. program like Terps succeed. So that's why I know a lot of families that were super excited for it to take off and hear about asking, like, why, like, because even in my head, like, that conversation just went in a totally different direction than what I was thinking that it was going to go in. And, but as soon as I grasped it, it just like, again, it just, I was like, I just started to go in so many different directions, that I was like, yeah, this is this is something else. Well, I'm hearing about all the options out there, like you said, outside of Maryland; like it's amazing to see what actually is available.

Amy D'Agati: 7:11

There are over 300, like 350 programs, which everyone thinks, oh my god, hundreds of programs. That's so great. There are like 45,000 institutes of higher ed across the country. So 300...

Meghan Smallwood: 7:24

We can can do better.

Amy D'Agati: 7:25

A little drop in the bucket, really.

Meghan Smallwood: 7:28

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 7:28

But you have to start somewhere, you know.

Meghan Smallwood: 7:29

Exactly, exactly. So with that, can you tell us a little bit about TerpsEXCEED, like when it started, how long it's been in place. And...

Amy D'Agati: 7:38

Yeah, so we just this fall was our third fall. So our third cohort of students came through. So we started in 2021. So I spent the second half of that COVID year doing planning. So we got a planning grant from the Maryland DD Council, which was really great to get us started. And it was one of those things where like, here I go. And so I started right away in January of 2021, during the planning, and I have to say, because it was COVID, part of that might have helped because I was able to meet with everybody that I needed to meet with over Zoom, where I'm not sure I would have been able to get in and meet with, you know, the higher you know, the the whole Dean of Student Affairs and undergraduate studies and all that and ResLife and all those people. If we didn't have the zoom, like people were just expecting, they could look up the calendar, and I could get on more easily. So I spent, you know, a good portion of, of COVID just talking to everybody I could find at the University of Maryland, to say we're gonna get this going, and how do we do this? And what was really lovely was, nobody said, no, nobody said, You're crazy. Nobody said, What are you talking about? You know, so at that point, or Dean in the College of Education, was really, there's a big push everywhere, and especially at University of Maryland for the diversity, equity and inclusion. And I just my point was, you know, what disability is often left out of that. Like, that's really low on that list. And if that's a big mission of the university, you know, it might be, you know, for the College of Ed to step up and make sure that that's a part of and she absolutely agreed. And she later became our provost, which was very handy.

Meghan Smallwood: 9:24

Oh, cool.

Amy D'Agati: 9:24

Yes, which was really helpful as well. So with her blessing, I was able to talk to, you know, the head of Rev Life and head of Student Affairs ahead of all that. And really, their question was always like, Hmm, how do we do that? Which was great if somebody says how I feel like that's really an open door. And most of what I said was, well, what do you typically do? Like I don't want you to create like a whole like side version of college that goes along cycle, it's just college and we'll put By sports, so however you do it, so it was sort of like, Who do you go to for a non-traditional academic unit? Like, go to the office of Extended Studies? All right, here we go. You know, so it's just like, "Well, how did you do it with this program?" And they would say how they did it and say, oh, let's do that then. Which made it easy. It's not I didn't want anybody to create something completely different, which is harder work. Let's just open the door and let us in to the way it already runs and just let us provide supports as we go.

Meghan Smallwood: 10:30

And that's a lot easier for people to accept when it's already been done in one way, yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 10:34

Right. It's already obviously this is how it works here. Let's just slide right into that. So that's what we did. We started small so that we could test things out. So we had two students, one of them was from your county.

Meghan Smallwood: 10:45

I taught him in high school.

Amy D'Agati: 10:46

Did you? Oh, yeah. He will see it was wonderful. And he has since been hired at the University of Maryland. So...

Meghan Smallwood: 10:52

Yes, that's great. He was, he was he was an awesome kid. He is an awesome kid.

Amy D'Agati: 10:56

Well, and really what we were looking for a new college isn't for everybody.

Meghan Smallwood: 11:00

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 11:00

And whether you have a disability or not, and University of Maryland isn't for everybody. There's lots of people who go off to college and like this wouldn't apply here. Because it's, you know, it's 40,000 students, it's pretty urban. It's big. It's a big 10 school, that might not be the right campus community.

Meghan Smallwood: 11:20

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 11:21

You know, so it has to be somebody who, that's something that they're really interested in. And for that particular young man, his entire family went to University of Maryland. So for him, he had, you know, lived the trip life this whole time. So for him to become a Terp was something that was super exciting for him. So we started out with two students. And we had to sort of build and two great families that, you know, we said, so your kids are guinea pigs, over to us and they said, go for it. We're sort of building it as we were going, and started with literally had like seven mentors, that were doing training. And we, we decided to teach a class that was in the disability studies minor. So it was an elective class, and it was a small group of students. But I know our department chair was real strong on, don't just pick random volunteers to help support these students on campus, that this is we want accountability, and we want people committed to inclusion. And so over time, what we've done is we've built it's become a large gen ed class of right that we're already full for the spring with an a waitlist of like 10, or 12 students, and not everybody has registered, so 50 students... Oh, wow....and they are trained on how to become your mentors. And it's a fieldwork course as well. So they have three hours a week minimum, where they have to provide direct supports to the top 16 students, whether it's going to a class with them, whether it's doing the tutoring four nights a week, whether it's having a meal with them, it's going to the football game, helping them join a club, you know, whatever is needed. So we went from seven, you know, mentors that first semester with two students. When we launched this fall, we had those students have graduated. And we now have 10 students. So four are going to graduate this this spring, and six are freshmen. So for seniors, like they start as freshmen, it's a two year certificate program. So they start as freshmen, and then they're immediately senior, the next year, so we have four seniors and six freshmen. And we have 85 mentors, and...

Meghan Smallwood: 13:35

Wow.

Amy D'Agati: 13:36

...and we will structure where they take the

Meghan Smallwood: 13:37

Wow.

Amy D'Agati: 13:38

We have football players. You know, we have, if course for credit, they earn a certificate, peer mentoring certificate from the College Reading and Learning Association. And then if they want to continue on that semester after that, which really be great, you know, to sort of build that network, they can become a lead peer mentors, and they take a seminar, that's not for credit. So they get a stipend for that. And they earn a level two peer mentoring certificate and their lead peer mentors. Oh, and then they stick with us after that. So they earn chords at graduation, just alongside our students for being peer mentors, and for how many semesters they do it. So we have, and they've become a cohort of really tight students that are then really good friends with the trips exceed students and their network just keeps building and building building. So that's been a really lovely thing. They're from majors from all over campus. So it's not like they're all special ed majors. In fact, we have very few special ed majors. They're even better. Yeah, computer science majors. Family size, public policy, public health. I mean, name it. We have it. anybody is a Maryland football player, we have Roman Hemby, who's probably going to the NFL. He's a mentor.

Meghan Smallwood: 14:51

Well, that's awesome.

Amy D'Agati: 14:52

Yeah. So um, so it's really lovely that it's expanding, you know, around campus that way. So it's just been it's just been I'm building him. And I'm trying to do marketing, lots of word of mouth. And the provost, the president, actually is very aware of the program at the beginning of the school year, he asked if he could meet all of the students, mentors and staff at the Student Union on the first day of classes, and he brought everyone coupons for ice cream, everybody, sat around and ate ice cream for like a half hour and hung out with President pines.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:23

Oh, wow. That's cool.

Amy D'Agati: 15:24

Because it was one of the, it's one of his programs that he likes to highlight and likes to be on top of. So that's really lovely as well.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:32

That's so neat. So and that was a question I actually had been thinking about, like, how does it work with the mentors? I didn't know how many there were, it's nice that there's not the same couple. It's such a variety...

Amy D'Agati: 15:43

Oh, yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 15:43

...of individuals. And then I mean, is there a way like, are the the Terps exceed students guaranteed to have a support, you know, throughout all of their day, is there some kind of a tracking to make sure that there's support there for them?

Amy D'Agati: 15:59

It's not 24/7 support, okay. We always let families know that. There needs to be a certain level of, of independence, and they all live in the dorms. So they're across three different dorms, some room with other TerpsEXCEED students, we have some seniors who roomed with friends that they made that are not in TerpsEXCEED. They're rooming with those friends, you know, there isn't that overnight support......or one-on-one aid kind of, kind of thing. Now we do have, Right. we do have families who a lot of families who are on self directed waiver, many of them have hired additional supports for very specific reasons, whether it is something with the independent living in the dorm, or, you know, a specific to a class or, or anything like that they have used those waiver dollars to hire, we put it out we have a whole bunch of networks, and it's typically a student on campus, which is perfect.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:52

Yeah, even better.

Amy D'Agati: 16:53

Yeah. Or one of our one of our mentors who's no longer in the course or something, but as a train mentor who's then is hired, you know.

Meghan Smallwood: 17:00

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 17:00

So that can work. So what we what we do is we work with the students, they have one course, with us as freshmen that first year. So every student has, University of Maryland has like a intro to college kind, of course, that's run through their major. And so we have one for trip succeed students, because we really focus on a lot of goal setting and competencies. And then and then just the logistics of being in college. I noticed a lot of freshmen who are not in TerpsEXCEED, could use...

Meghan Smallwood: 17:31

Absolutely.

Amy D'Agati: 17:33

There's some cluelessness when freshman come...

Meghan Smallwood: 17:36

My husband works at College Park, and I hear every August about those freshmen coming in...

Amy D'Agati: 17:42

And oh, yeah, yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 17:44

...he's shaking his head at the freedom that they're, you know, embracing a little too much. So...

Amy D'Agati: 17:49

Oh, yeah. And that happens with our students as well. But it's very new. That's what inclusion is, you know...

Meghan Smallwood: 17:55

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Amy D'Agati: 17:56

...frankly. So we have that one class, we're working on their schedules, they have calendars, we load them up with Google Calendar notifications, we have a huge, massive spreadsheet, it looks like this rainbow spreadsheet that they can also access on their phones. And all of the mentors access that as well. So in the, in the class with the peer mentors, we talk through schedules, and if students have, they have their courses up there, if they've picked an activity, if they've joined the club, if they want to go to game, it's all on there. And with next to them is a blank thing for all the supports to sign up. So they go through and they sign up to match and it's with their schedule and student sales. So these students know any of these mentors at any time and they sign up and then they know that they're gonna check with them, you know, do you want bring any friends? Should I bring some friends, you know, and they figure it out. And then the first couple of weeks, it's also I'll meet you at your dorm and walk you to your class, right? Because they're, you know, getting lost...

Meghan Smallwood: 18:55

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 18:56

...by October. It's, I'll meet you a class, you know, they're starting to get to know how to get around.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:02

So the TerpsEXCEED students need to be pretty savvy or aware of accessing their calendar and how to, you know, check all this...

Amy D'Agati: 19:09

We spend all the first semester...

Meghan Smallwood: 19:12

Okay.

Amy D'Agati: 19:12

...we're working on that. So for those who were it's a little bit of a struggle, and we have to figure out extra sports we do. They probably have more direct supports from the horse, some fades sooner on some things, some on others.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:26

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 19:27

It takes that first semester. So it's a little chaotic, you know, figuring out what the...

Meghan Smallwood: 19:32

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 19:33

...supports are, and then adapting all their goals to that.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:37

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 19:37

And all the you know, the peer mentors, spend a lot of time together in groups and with the lead peer mentors brainstorming like this happen. It's a really good strategy. Everybody's using the same strategy. Yeah. So and then they do really a lot of fun things. So they had mixed like the rec team sports teams at Maryland are kind of a really big thing, especially for freshmen / sophomores. So any sport possible they can, they can pull together rec teams. So we had we've had, you know, mix of mentors and turf succeed students that did, like football that did soccer, they did volleyball, you know, they do a lot of really that really fun stuff. So we have some who are coaching, and then they sign up and do that. So they have really a lot of fun social things, as well. And then these are the same mentors who four nights a week due to our tutoring sessions with them, to support them in their classes. So their tutors and then they're just, I mean, they literally just hanging out, oh, it's go to the gym, where you know, who wants to be on the you know, this like football team and busy? They were fair, some you know, by mid October, you look at their calendars. And it's an it's crazy. And it is that's a learning curve in from high school to college...

Meghan Smallwood: 20:53

Yes.

Amy D'Agati: 20:53

...for particular students is how do you manage your own calendar? How do you manage your own schedule?

Meghan Smallwood: 20:59

So I'm hearing those time management skills to practice in school and the calendar skills. I think that's a great skill that they can be practicing prior to getting over there.

Amy D'Agati: 21:08

Yeah, scheduling yourself.

Meghan Smallwood: 21:09

Yeah, yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 21:10

And if somebody asks you, you know, Hey, are you free or whatever to do this? You know, we have students go. Sure.

Meghan Smallwood: 21:15

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 21:16

No, you actually have class then?

Meghan Smallwood: 21:17

Yeah, right.

Amy D'Agati: 21:18

Check the calendar.

Meghan Smallwood: 21:19

Speaking of the classes, though, are there are they open to take any class that they want, based on their interest?

Amy D'Agati: 21:26

Yeah, pretty much we they choose a course of study. So it's almost like a mini major based on their based on their interests. And connecting it to careers. They do take a class in the Career Center is run by a career specialist that does a lot of exploration and uses the accesses the whole career center, especially that first semester to try to figure out what they're really interested in doing. They all have to take an oral communication class because all students, all freshmen at university American have to take oral communication, which is great learning to, you know, speak in front of people, it's great for interview prep, and all that kind of stuff that they that whatever your area of interest are in, we go through, and they register like anybody else. And they get advising through the College of Education and pull out classes that typically if they can take them for audit, so that is an option. And they still get a transcript with that, and they still get the certificate at the end, even if it's audited. But the auditing that we do is they still they go to every class, they take every test, they do every assignment they're in there in any group projects. They have mentors that go to classes with them until they don't need that anymore. Some will always need that, you know, and that's fine. And then some have tried and been successful in taking something for pass fail or for a grade, if they feel it's you know that they can, but the option for an audit is great. So we look at stuff to see if it's auditable. And then we have an academic liaison, once they register reaches out to every professor, just to let them know this is Trump succeed. This is how you you know, these are some tips for working with people with intellectual disabilities. And then looking through the syllabus to see how can something how can it be modified, perhaps for the students like if it's a 10 page paper, can they do a 2 page paper with support, and they register with Accessibility & Disability Services. So if they need extra time on tests, and just like anybody else with disabilities on campus, they get all of those accommodations, we make sure that they're registered and have access to all the accommodations that they need for classes.

Meghan Smallwood: 23:28

Awesome. I like that process of seeing about the modifications being made. I know that's a huge question by parents a lot of times.

Amy D'Agati: 23:35

Right, yeah. Cuz so some of the classes that they're taking can be they're taking psychology class, I mean, everything about criminal justice, psychology, a lot of Kinesiology guys who like sports. Theater was huge. Oh, I bet. Yeah. For law students and trying to think I mean, there's there's some classes that a lot of people like psychology of happiness, that's one that more than one Oh, you can public policy, sociology, public health mean anything that's, everything's on the table, everything's on the table. They have some really cool, interesting plant nutrition classes, geography classes, we have one a man who's super interested in in weather stuff. So he's taking all sorts of weather related climate change kinds of courses. So it's, there's so many there's so many options. It's a really nice University of Maryland 1000s of classes.

Meghan Smallwood: 24:26

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 24:27

I have not had trouble finding...

Meghan Smallwood: 24:29

Oh, that's awesome.

Amy D'Agati: 24:30

...courses and if somebody needs more of a you know, they're not as academic and they need more of...

Meghan Smallwood: 24:33

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 24:34

Sometimes theaters more performance, and that's where they really shine, you know, and so, we, we focus on those classes a little more, a lot of them love to take then additional classes, like a dance a hip hop class or jazz class or you know, which is which is fine, you know, and...

Meghan Smallwood: 24:49

How many classes do they typically take in a semester?

Amy D'Agati: 24:53

The their full time students so the minimum is 12 credits, which is...

Meghan Smallwood: 24:57

Ok.

Amy D'Agati: 24:57

...four classes. And you know, one of the those in that freshman years is with us. It's a credit course, 3 credit course. And then the one at the Career Center, and then 2 to start off, it's usually they take the 4 their freshman year, or at least fall. And then those who are really like really engaged in learning, they can take five classes if they want, they can try one for a grade and the rest for audit, they can take 5 audited classes and see how see how that works. So the minimum is 12. But we've had students take, you know, 15 16, 17.

Patrick Cadigan: 25:37

Is there a, how do you identify a student that would be good for the TerpsEXCEED program?

Amy D'Agati: 25:43

Oh, yeah, that's actually we're looking for students with intellectual disabilities. That's really what the program is focused on. Somebody who would not be able to go through the typical admissions process, and then get a degree at the University of Maryland, but really wants to continue learning wants to take advantage of everything that's, you know, on campus hasn't has an interest in that sort of college experience. It has a level of independence that, you know, they're if they want to live in the dorms, that they're going to be able to set an alarm and get up, you know, eventually, we provide support, certainly in the beginning and showing them how do you you know, live the dorm life. We have mentors who do a lot of training and doing your own laundry, which they really should do for all freshmen.

Meghan Smallwood: 26:29

All students, yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 26:31

Yeah. I've seen some crazy inability to be able to do their own laundry, and it's not our students. Yeah, so we're so we're looking for students, also, who are, who have had some experience away from home a little bit. So if they went away to a camp, like, you know, I think it's, I think, sorry, for any freshmen, if they've, like, never spent away a night away from a family, you know, at all, it's a shock to then suddenly move on to campus.

Meghan Smallwood: 26:59

That's a good point. I didn't even think about that.

Amy D'Agati: 27:01

Yeah, yeah. So you know, if they've had any sort of experience with that, we look for students who have had some work experience, it's a very career focused program. And so, you know, if they've gone through school, they've had some work based learning experiences. And they've had, you know, they've understand a little bit about what, what it's like to have a job, because the goal really is that you're getting a better job than if you didn't go to college, which is the same reason anybody goes to college. So we want them to have some, you know, that is a focus. And they've had a little bit of of experience with that. And, yeah, when we tell families, I mean, we had 67 families sign up for open house, this fall. And we try to let parents, let them try some things independently, like the calendar, like scheduling something because you know, if you're sick, you don't feel good on campus, you can make an appointment at the health center, Mom's not going to do that for you. So a mentor can help you do that and walk over there with you. But by the time you're graduating, if you're you got to know what that process is, you have to know how to call or to get on line and make an appointment, know that you have to show your UID and do all that and then walk over and wait for your appointment to go in and get checked. And so we try to you know, help them in the beginning. But we really expect particular by time their seniors, if they say, you know, I don't feel good. It's like, Well, do you remember what you need to do? Do you have a health center right on campus, and you need to make that call. So I think if they come in with a little understanding of you know, you're becoming an adult, and you have to try some of this stuff on your own. I think it won't be such a such a shock.

Meghan Smallwood: 28:40

And it's just like every other student, it's trial and error. You learn, you know, and you make mistakes, and that's part of life.

Amy D'Agati: 28:47

Yeah. And in a college, you know, environment is a good place. It's not, it's closer to the real rules.

Meghan Smallwood: 28:53

Yes.

Amy D'Agati: 28:53

Still is a little bit of a bubble there.

Meghan Smallwood: 28:56

Yes, a little shelter, but...

Amy D'Agati: 28:57

...a lot of right. You've got your RA's help.

Meghan Smallwood: 29:00

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 29:00

You got a lot of people you're getting up and you know, then you're going to the dining hall where you have like 14,000 options, you know, of food. It's not really the real

Meghan Smallwood: 29:09

Yeah, but it's sometimes. And I think it might world. be harder for some parents to let that happen than the actual students.

Amy D'Agati: 29:18

Yes. Yep, that's why we're really encouraged living on campus. It's not required, certainly, like it wouldn't be required for any college student. But we really encourage it, because that's the stuff that you know, in the evening and in the dorm is the hanging in the lounge, during the rec sports which 10 o'clock at night, you know, that's where you really feel a part of the campus and where you make the connections and feel like a college students, and where some of the really, really important life skills are learned, you know, and where we have to step in and say, "Ooh, that that's not the best way to make friends, you know, and let's work on a different way with some mentors." You know, that's an important life skill as well as going to class and doing well on the class.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:06

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 30:06

You know...

Meghan Smallwood: 30:06

Absolutely.

Amy D'Agati: 30:07

...another life training.

Meghan Smallwood: 30:09

Right. And they have it all there at their fingertips

Amy D'Agati: 30:11

All of it, yeah.

Patrick Cadigan: 30:12

Well and that, I think, is a great way to segue into then, if families are interested in TerpsEXCEED, what does the application process look like for them?

Amy D'Agati: 30:22

It opens every year on December 1st, so it just opened up on our on our website, and it's an application packet. So they have to complete the packet. Part of that is rather than an essay, we ask that they send in a video answering the questions that we ask, and they need three letters of recommendation, and then attaching, you know, their IP and transition plan is really helpful. As well, as a psychological we are looking, we're trying to look for intellectual disability, you know, as a as a diagnosis, or something that that really manifests in the same kind of way. So having having their their latest neuro psych, or psych evaluation is helpful, as well. So it's a whole little packet, and it's due February 1st. So give me you know, we give them a couple months to turn that in. And then we have an admissions team that looks through it the entire month of February into March, and then we let them know, mid-March. And they have to, you know, take some time to decide, because they have to turn in housing applications along with all freshmen by May 1st. Sort of that's the process.

Meghan Smallwood: 31:28

And I know there's 10 students, currently you'd said?

Amy D'Agati: 31:31

Ten current students; 4 are graduating, I think we're going to take this time 6 new, so we'll have 6 and 6 in the cohort, we're like growing it every...

Meghan Smallwood: 31:39

Okay.

Amy D'Agati: 31:40

You know, slowly every year. So...

Meghan Smallwood: 31:42

Yeah, no, that's smart to to kind of...yeah, yeah, I like that. I know, you'd mentioned before about self directed funding with DDA, people who do that, like for extra support persons? Are there any other connections you have with DDA or DORS? Because I'm just thinking about the the funding piece like for classes and things like that, how does that work?

Amy D'Agati: 32:00

Well, right. And that's what we've taken this time to that's, that was sort of my thought and starting TerpsEXCEED at this big university, when we have a lot of relationships with DDA and DORS, because of our center so that we can make something that's sustainable and replicable, because it really should be in, in all of the...

Meghan Smallwood: 32:19

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 32:19

...schools of higher ed in Maryland, you know, but you have to start with something.

Meghan Smallwood: 32:22

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 32:23

We think that's a model. So when we started, it was the families paying the full tuition room. And board. DDA gives us programmatic, like funding so that we can help support staff, which is wonderful, and we can't do that forever. So we're working on it needs to be supported by the state. So we're working on some presentations to the state legislature. But in the meantime, DDA has been very supportive that way. They also pay for those students who are eligible, and usually I'm using their waiver funds, we charge an additional support fee. It's really the only money that comes to the program, tuition, room board, none of that comes to the program that just goes to the university. So we charged an extra support fee, which currently is $3,750 a semester. And for those who are eligible, DDA has started paying that, because what we do is we really build the peer mentoring program with that money, which is direct community supports, which is what DDA supports, so it makes sense. And we have been working very closely with DORS. In the beginning, they they were paying part of tuition only at the Montgomery County, or Montgomery college level. But there's been new regulations that came down from rehab services administration just this past summer. And DORS has been watching that because they've been really partnering with a strongly now for those who are eligible, they will pay for some up to full tuition, room and board.

Meghan Smallwood: 33:55

Wow.

Amy D'Agati: 33:56

Which is fabulous. That opens up the door for so many families. Because, you know, I think there's a lot of families that had, you know, 529 plans and savings plans for their kids to go to college, all their kids except their kid with an intellectual disability because that was never an option. So they don't have savings. So you know, it's, it's hard for family to like, all of a sudden, there's this option to

Meghan Smallwood: 34:21

Yeah, that's, that's why we're here to do like, whip together. Work for two years, you know, that's tough. So now there there is this option. In addition, DORS we partner with DORS for the career specialist that teaches the career class and does a lot of the internship job development is actually a staff person of an adult service agency, and is funded through all the students have open full DORS VR cases. And so that funding then supports that employment specialist, and she's on campus and housed in the Career Center and on campus three days a week and really does the follow through. The students have to be in internships. paid or unpaid, or three of the four semesters. So after that first semester, then they do internships in areas of, of interest and some of them find one and then they just grow in it for the next three semesters, some find one and go,"Ahh, I really love that." And we're like, that's great. Good that you know that we get a whole different one than next semester. that. That's awesome.

Amy D'Agati: 35:26

Right. Knock, knock out that, you know...

Meghan Smallwood: 35:28

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 35:28

...you don't like is asbimportant as learning what you do like...

Meghan Smallwood: 35:31

Exactly.

Amy D'Agati: 35:32

...in their final semester they're getting, they have a paid job. And then you know, then we support wherever, whatever their employment specialist is, where they're going to go for adult services. We work with them to find to help them find a job wherever they're going to be living.

Meghan Smallwood: 35:47

So that's something else on their calendar, that internship.

Amy D'Agati: 35:50

Yes. It, that starts to fill up, they get really busy.

Meghan Smallwood: 35:53

Oh, my goodness, yes.

Amy D'Agati: 35:54

They start out with maybe five hours a week. And then we have some students that are 10/12 hours a week we have a student who is a student manager with the equipment department of the football team. Did it all last semester, this semester travels with the team.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:13

Oh, wow.

Amy D'Agati: 36:14

Takes the 14 hour bus to Northwestern got on the chartered plane to Nebraska and is going to Nashville for the bowl game.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:22

What an experience. That's so cool.

Amy D'Agati: 36:24

He is living the dream.

Meghan Smallwood: 36:26

Oh, absolutely.

Amy D'Agati: 36:27

So, he worked. But his job. I mean, he works really, really hard. They hired him for pay over the summer. And he does training camp and he works really, really, really hard. And he comes home on these lawn, like the equipment team has to, you know, to most games has to drive while the team flies because they have all the equipment and then they come over then have to unload all the equipment. He's a really hard worker. But Coach Locksley knows him by name. Yeah. Oh, and he gets to eat in the football dining hall, every once in a while. All the perks. So yeah, he like has an awesome internship.

Meghan Smallwood: 37:01

That is so cool.

Patrick Cadigan: 37:02

Well, and then, alright, so playing off of that, as I'm listening to you talk about all this really cool stuff...so Meghan and I always approach it into because of course, we're the we're the school teachers, right? Like, I'm the middle school teacher, Meghan works with the high school kids. So if you were to articulate how can we educators, parents family, how can we best prepare students for all of this while they're in high school? Like, what would you what would you throw out there?

Amy D'Agati: 37:32

I think starting early, I love that it's middle school. I think even in middle school, getting that starting with that, that career exploration, starting with even extracurricular activities, so that they're part of teams. Understand, again, managing your own schedule a little bit, I think is super important. I think, because it is, it's an academic program. Again, they're auditing and are getting a lot of support and working toward their level, just understanding appropriate behavior in a classroom and what our study skills which, frankly, you know, I've two kids, my own at University of Maryland, and I remember, in high school, having to work with them on stuff like outlining and studying, and like they don't teach studying. And it's a really important skill, if you're going off to college, understanding a little bit of how to organize yourself. And time management time man... if you can start that super early, you know, in everything that they're doing, and having a little control over their day, and having some consequences for not on their calendar, you know, a lot of natural consequences on that, that kids learn really fast. So I think that that's really important. But yeah, just, it's not that we expect them to be able to write a 15 page, research paper, but to be able to understand a topic and be able to with a mentor, say, This is what I want to search. And these are some of the key points. And with a mentor, organizing them in a thoughtful way, you know, and then being able to express that is really, I think, important. And I think that's important in a lot of jobs, even if that's not your job. You know, being able to work with supervisors in in an organized way and express your thoughts, I think is a really important life skill, as well.

Meghan Smallwood: 39:31

I like how you said control over their day, because I feel like you know, us as special educators we want to help and we try to help so much sometimes that we over help, and then they're reliant on us to tell them what's next and where to go and what to do.

Amy D'Agati: 39:49

Yep.

Meghan Smallwood: 39:49

So I agree, I think we just need to a lot of us need to in families to need to take a step back and let them show us and if they if it doesn't work out or there's a consequence, that's okay.

Amy D'Agati: 40:00

Right. That's the best way to learn. We tell families like, let you know, if you're doing a family thing on the weekend, let Johnny plan it. If he has to ask you for help. Great. And if you know you get there and it was closed, because

Meghan Smallwood: 40:12

Yeah. he didn't call ahead or didn't look at a website and see the times, and then you go, Oh, you put everybody here and it's closed. And that was a flop. Well, that probably won't happen again. You know, so let them take charge of something and don't step into always fix it. Yeah, you know, a great, it's okay to make mistakes. And that's usually where we learned. So we tend to realize that the fall semester, I think, for a lot of freshmen too, but you know, for our students as well.

Amy D'Agati: 40:42

But that's, by the time I mean, the students who That's when there's just a lot of natural consequences. A lot of mistakes happening, a lot of you know, it's an exhausting semester or irrelevant, providing the supports. are seniors, the growth that we have seen, we always remember we have to remind ourselves when the incoming freshmen come in, and we're like, Oh, my God, how is this happening? We, they were all that way. Yeah, well, last year, and now, they like they're just growing beyond, you know, it's amazing what they are doing for themselves. Don't even know that's happening that mentors later on are telling us and we're like, what you did? What? What did they do? And which is great, because they don't want me. You know, it's the staff are a bunch of moms.

Meghan Smallwood: 41:28

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 41:29

And they don't, you know, are like mama bears, they don't want us going to class with them. They don't want us go into, you know, they certainly like us, and they'll see us, but they don't want hang out. And there's certain things we're not going to tell us or do with us, which is perfectly normal. And frankly, I appreciate that. The mentors are really sort of our, you know, they'll let us know, they'll let us know if it's coming to a point where, you know, we're really worried about this and like social media, and, you know, yeah, we're gonna step in, you know, but a lot of times, they're like, oh, yeah, you don't need to know what happened at that party that we

Meghan Smallwood: 42:02

Well, and that's good, though, that the had. It's like...Great. mentors, feel comfortable and know that they can problem solve with you. If something like you mentioned social media. I know that has been a big issue as the years go on, with oversharing. And trust, you know, just it's, it's a scary world out there. So it's good that they can go to you and then be that middleman to kind of help because they're closer to their age, and they'll probably respond better. And yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 42:31

You do a lot of what is the best strategy for communicating something when you're helping somebody and you're also a friend, you know, but you're a mentor. And you know.

Meghan Smallwood: 42:40

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 42:40

And there's some there's sticky situations. And there's, you know, it's hard for students to come from, from high school, it's a little more protected. And then here they are, they're in co-ed dorms.

Meghan Smallwood: 42:53

Yes.

Amy D'Agati: 42:54

And they're, you know, it's over. It's going for seven. And it's really great to have mentors, who we work through that, and we have whole class sessions on how do you how do you manage that, because that's, those are life skills, too. You can't go ahead of somebody their entire life and try to explain to everyone around them, they need to understand social cues.

Meghan Smallwood: 43:16

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 43:16

You need to you know, and that's another thing. That's a that's a huge learning curve at college. That's so important. That doesn't happen. It's like the best place for that to happen.

Meghan Smallwood: 43:26

Yeah, for sure. I would agree. I one thing that just came into mind, you know, we're talking about the communication, you know, between the mentors, the students; is there a communication between between you and the family?

Amy D'Agati: 43:37

Oh, constant. There's a lot. But there's also that there are things that happen, where we've had students say, you know, I need to call my mom and this and I go, Oh, you're a college student. This is not...

Meghan Smallwood: 43:51

Ok.

Amy D'Agati: 43:51

...that, nope, we're gonna figure this out without mom, that doesn't need to happen. And, you know, there's stuff that if they have to meet with the IRA, the IRA doesn't call a parent to talk about a situation that happened that they're managing. And so if that's something, you know, it's a whole different communication that's protected, that's FERPA, like I, I'll say, you want to tell your mom that this happens, you can. But I'm not gonna reach out to him because you are a college student now. You know, so there's a little bit that but we do, we do want to make sure that that parents are comfortable. And we always do a check in and students have office hours with us. And at the end of, you know, the first semester, we invite families to come in for part of that, and we say, let's tell your parents all the stuff that you have been doing, you know, so there is yeah, there's a lot of communication that way, but there is stuff that happens on campus that happens in Vegas that happens in campus, but they know if it's a safety thing, if it's a medical thing, obviously but if it's just a learning curve, and you know, we do have some students say, "Oh my oh my gosh, I have to ask my mom about this," and we go well, let's try to work it out. This is maybe Your mom's not on, you know, go on college with you.

Patrick Cadigan: 45:03

I love that.

Amy D'Agati: 45:04

Yeah. So. So it's so it's that fine line, we really try to try to help them come up with the resources and the networks that they have on college on campus first. And then if it's really something that you need, you know, help form your parents, you know, aps, bsolutely. It's not like we're cutting you off.

Meghan Smallwood: 45:21

Right.

Amy D'Agati: 45:22

We're trying...

Meghan Smallwood: 45:23

We're teaching you that you can figure this out yourself, right? ties in with that advocacy piece to which I know in we're drilling in them, hopefully, in school that we want to carry over to college. So...

Amy D'Agati: 45:34

Yeah and it's and that's really important. And they can earn before they graduate, they can actually earn earn badges in competency areas, and one of them is self advocacy. And there's leadership, and there's communication, and there's career prep. And there's a whole bunch of projects, independent side projects, they work on with mentors, in order to be able to earn different badges for when they graduate. So that goes with them with their certificate, then as well

Meghan Smallwood: 45:59

Oh, awesome.

Patrick Cadigan: 46:00

Is there anything else that you would want to throw out there for families that they should know about prepping for post secondary life? Like, if there was like, if there was like, three tips that you would give families, what would they be?

Amy D'Agati: 46:12

I think, to remind that there is, it's risky to send your kid off to college. Like, I understand that for any parent, for any kids, you know, to let go, there is that dignity in risk. And I always want to say parents, please trust, please trust this process. We have a lot of supports built in here. And it really is a lovely community, but it has to be their community. And they have to try stuff. And I think a lot of our families, you know, we just did a big statewide needs assessment to sort of get an idea of what families are looking for in K12, educators and, and everyone and they did say they want to have programs that are close to home. So our students or our County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County, Frederick, you know, within an hour drive, it doesn't mean that they come up, most of our students don't even go home on the weekends. But just knowing that they're that close in case they need to be that's made them comfortable. That's another argument for us to be able to spread that you know, there should be one in Frostburg, there should be one on the Eastern Shore, there should be one salt, because you know, it's a really far transition...

Meghan Smallwood: 47:18

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 47:18

...for families, and they want to be comfortable. So it's like, you can know that you're nearby, if you need to be here, most likely, we don't need you to be here. You know, we haven't had any situations where it's been an emergency and called parents, to let them really have that dignity of risk, I think is something and in order to do that, though, I say, be planful about it. So you'll be more comfortable, we say to parents, you are more comfortable. If you know you've tried something with them, you've seen them pull up their calendar, you you know, you've they've they've taken a public transportation that they've they've had to learn a task, and then they've shown it to you so that you know that when they come to college, and we're going to try something new, they really have that ability to do that. You know, so I think that's another thing is just to be planful and let them dry stuff while you're watching it. Sometimes parents go, I don't think that they can do that. But if you've seen them do that, you're gonna say, I know, it's okay, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let them go. So I think that's it and then just to just to support just to support the students, because they're going to be trying a bunch of really new kind of cool things. And just to let them go ahead and try and if they're like, oh, no, that's something he's gonna like, okay. Let him learn that on his own. You know, let him try and learn. So I think it's, it's, it's just that being planful. And then it's okay to be a little uncomfortable with this. And I come from a family where I have, I have one brother with intellectual disabilities, my only other sibling. And I've seen my parents go through all this, and my brother did have Community College kind of program. And, you know, we find out later that my mom was like, dressing in a disguise glasses and a scarf and to follow him everywhere until one day at the table, he's like well, mom when she was wears a scarf and these weird glasses, and we were like, Mom, seriously, you gotta let go, you know, no, one coming from the family side. That that's, that's the instinct to do that. And we spent years pulling her away from stop putting on this guy. He's like, he saw you, mom. Don't be ridiculous.

Meghan Smallwood: 49:34

He knew if you're undercover.

Amy D'Agati: 49:36

Right, right. So I see that in my own family, how hard it is...

Meghan Smallwood: 49:40

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 49:40

...to let go and that you have to help them pull away.

Meghan Smallwood: 49:44

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 49:44

And so I think I think college is is great for that. I think it is because it's not quite the full real world. It's still a bit of bubble. Plus, I think a lot of families they have other if they have siblings, parents understand college, you know, they know what happens there. It's not that much I have a mystery. I think the mystery was, I didn't think my kid with an intellectual disability could ever do this. But then you kind of go well, why, especially at a big campus, like University of Maryland, every kind of person, everybody finds their people. There is a group, there's over 720 clubs on campus.

Meghan Smallwood: 50:19

Wow.

Amy D'Agati: 50:20

There is something for absolutely, everybody. It's perfect that way.

Patrick Cadigan: 50:26

Amy, if parents were interested in more information about TerpsEXCEED, where where would you send them?

Amy D'Agati: 50:32

We do have a website that has webinars that we've done a lot of information, it's got a lot of picture, we update with pictures of all the you know, there's a there's an intro video. And if you just go, Google, if you Google chirps exceed University of Maryland's it'll, it'll pop up. And it'll take you to that to the website. And that's where the application is. And we have a very specific email that if anybody has any inquiries, send it right to that email, and we get back to people I have, I will talk to parents all the time, they want to set up a phone call, I get a lot of nervous parent conversations. And that's fair. And I appreciate that I get a lot of parents never asking, you know, my child is a freshman or sophomore, what should I be doing for the next couple of years? And I love, that's a great question. And you know, and we let them know. So and it's, it's unfortunately, a competitive application process, because we're the only one in Maryland and we're just starting. So you know, we get like 30 applications for six slots, and I hate I hate that. So we are trying to expand, that's really we're gonna go for some grant funding so that what we can do is replicate. Similar of similar model, Towson and Frostburg and, you know, community colleges and UVS and Salisbury. And I think it should be a network of programs so that students with intellectual disabilities have a choice to apply to the campus that best matches their personality, which is...

Meghan Smallwood: 51:58

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 51:58

...what everybody else gets to do.

Meghan Smallwood: 52:00

I was gonna say every other college student gets to, you know, visit and research and decide which ones you want to apply to. So it'd be nice to have the same for them.

Amy D'Agati: 52:08

Yep, absolutely. So that's, that's the ultimate goal. Because now I mean, they can they can go out of state and stuff. It's a lot of times, that's expensive.

Meghan Smallwood: 52:14

Yeah.

Amy D'Agati: 52:14

You know, so we're trying to make it very reasonable and partner with all of our state agencies, for in state students so that we have that we really are trying to try to focus on Maryland students, because they haven't had this opportunity, affordable opportunity for so long. So we really want to give that to the to in state residents. And then over time when we have all these other state residents want to come have a tour. I love that too.

Patrick Cadigan: 52:38

Fantastic. All right. Well, I'll tell you what, I think that is a great place to stop. Amy, I can't thank you enough for coming...

Meghan Smallwood: 52:46

Me, either.

Patrick Cadigan: 52:46

and talking with us.

Amy D'Agati: 52:47

Thank you guys. Yeah, I love this program I love it's the best job I've ever had. It is the most fun. So, you know, I'm just thrilled that it's the word is getting out and that we can build it.

Patrick Cadigan: 53:09

Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. That was, that conversation was amazing. And I, I'm continuing to wrap my head around this prospect. And it was not the the conversation started with ThinkCollege. And it just keeps going. And I'm just, it's amazing what's out there.

Meghan Smallwood: 53:30

Yeah, it's amazing the work that Amy and them have done, and just to see a blossoming I can't wait to see in a couple of years, how much it's expanded, because I know it will. There's just a high demand and they have such a fantastic program. So...

Patrick Cadigan: 53:43

Yeah, just all the information and the structure, and just all of the just the willingness to share out it was just really, really great. So I'll tell you what, we're going to, we're going to kind of cheat a little bit this week. And we're gonna say that we're gonna make the TerpsEXCEED our Well, That's Helpful resource because, gosh, darn it, it is just really helpful.

Meghan Smallwood: 54:03

Yes, very much so.

Patrick Cadigan: 54:05

All right, Ms. Meghan, you want to sign us out?

Meghan Smallwood: 54:08

All right. Well, as always, we appreciate you being here and listening. So please follow this information from this conversation. And in our other conversations in our show notes, like following please, please, please share out the podcast. Check out our YouTube channel, because we have videos of all our conversations, including doing some of that legwork for you by curating videos of topics that revolve around transition. We have playlists that cover guardianship, alternatives to guardianship ABLE accounts and still more to come. So be sure to subscribe there as well. And of course, please check out our website which is chock full of information around the transition process. And you'll also find our contact information there. So please go to www.postsecondarytransition.com.

Patrick Cadigan: 54:51

And just as a real quick I am going to throw out one more time the website continues to be quote/unquote"under construction," or at least a "work in progress." We're still, we're working on a few new pages. And that is making us have to think about shifting where some of the existing pages are. But it's a work in progress, but the information is still there. So definitely go check it out. All right. Another one in the bag and we still have more to come.

Meghan Smallwood: 55:18

Always, always. Lots. Lots in our brains, isn't there?

Patrick Cadigan: 55:21

All right, brilliant. Well, we're gonna sign this one off. Thank you guys for listening and we'll talk with you soon.

Meghan Smallwood: 55:27

Thanks, everyone.