Meghan Smallwood: 0:20

Welcome, welcome back. We're here for the Post Secondary Transition podcast where we have conversations around the ins and outs and everything in between of the transition process for families of students with disabilities. I'm one of the hosts. My name is Meghan Smallwood, and I'm a public school transition coordinator. And my co-host is...

Patrick Cadigan: 0:39

I'm Patrick Cadigan. I am a public school special education teacher. And as always, before we begin our conversation, we'd like to give the listeners a definition of what we're talking about. So post secondary transition, it really focuses between ages 14 through 21, and really helps to answer the question of what do you want for your child after they leave school? Now we're looking to help answer that question by asking parents to think long term milestones ahead of you, the research that you're doing resources, the goals that you have.

Meghan Smallwood: 1:11

Right. And how do we define long term? Well, what do you want your child to be doing after the school bus stops coming? That's different for everybody. And it's completely individualized experiences. Along with that individuality can come loneliness. And in some cases, there can be a sense of isolation, and it's really just a unique experience. But there are other families who are going through this probably at the same time you are.

Patrick Cadigan: 1:34

And along that journey, there is milestones that you're going to need to focus on. Some of those are built around timeframes, and others can be at your own timeframe, when you're comfortable and when you're ready. But using your child's school experiences will really help while doing the research, using the resources at your disposal, your special educator, general education, teachers school administration, or if supported your school transition specialist. And also do not forget about outside agencies. It is a lot of information, there's a lot to consider. In many cases, the answers won't always immediately present themselves. And there might be some give and there might be some tick, there are things that you do that might not have that desired outcome. But definitely trying to do it all at once can feel really consuming. So we're here, hoping to help clear away some of that fog.

Meghan Smallwood: 2:27

Right. And again, we're continuing our focus on a 101-style conversation to help families understand the complexities of the transition process. Today, we're going to focus on a really big topic, guardianship, and that comes up a lot as students turn 18 and parents are faced with the world seeing their child now as an adult. So with that being said, where should we begin..?

Patrick Cadigan: 2:53

Do you...do you...

Meghan Smallwood: 2:55

Loaded question...

Patrick Cadigan: 2:56

I was gonna say, should we begin the conversation with a disclaimer?

Meghan Smallwood: 3:00

Yeah, that's a very good idea. We are not attorneys. We're not here giving any legal advice, whatsoever. We're just trying to present all the tools in the toolbox. I love that saying because guardianship is just one of the many tools and you'll hear us say it many times in this conversation, you need to research all the possible alternatives before you make your decision.

Patrick Cadigan: 3:32

All right. So then why don't we start off very basic, what does guardianship mean?

Meghan Smallwood: 3:38

So guardianship is a legal proceeding through the court system, and it takes the decision making rights from an individual that has been deemed like legally unable to make their own decisions due to their disability. So it will place the decisions for that person in the hands of their parent, or in some cases, another appointed guardian. And I guess I'll just throw it out here right now that I have experience with guardianship because I am a guardian of my sister. So I've gone through this, so I could speak a little bit about it personally. But basically, at age 18, an individual is presumed to have legal capacity. And that's scary to think, you know, your child turns 18, and all of a sudden, they're an adult. If a loved one lacks the capacity to manage their personal or financial affairs, then the court can appoint a guardian to help take control over their affairs. There are two types of guardianship. And I know it can get a little confusing but guardianship of a person is one and guardianship of the estate is the other. For the guardian of the person. That Guardian is responsible basically for their safety and Well being of the individual and making decisions that govern their care on their day to day life. So where they live, where they work, medical care, they eat, who they spend time with. So it's important for parents to understand that if their son or daughter is capable of making some maybe not all of the decisions regarding their welfare, but some, there are other alternatives to guardianship, The Guardian will have the care custody control in education of the person. So that's typically, from my experience, what parents are looking towards doing when they're deciding about guardianship. guardianship of the estate, or property is basically just managing finances and legal affairs. So, little different.

Patrick Cadigan: 5:31

So there, that sounds like there's a lot in there. So when you talk about your sister, you have to plan all of that out, or I guess what is that level, like, look like? Are you the one who has to plan the work, the medical care what she eats, like all of that?

Meghan Smallwood: 5:44

So my parents and myself are all guardians. So when they went for guardianship, back when I was in my 20s, they included me, thinking long term, you know, if they weren't around one day. So currently, my parents are the ones that really help to manage all that. And I'm kind of kept in the loop of things. But yes, they are the ones and my sister does live in a group home in New York. So my parents work closely with those outside providers, to let them know what decisions they want made for her for her care. But basically, my parents have the final say before anything is done.

Patrick Cadigan: 6:18

So guardianship to me, sounds pretty, pretty restrictive.

Meghan Smallwood: 6:22

Yeah, so again, it's just one of those tools in the toolbox, but it's the most restrictive tool in the toolbox. It's really considered that highest form of intervention, you're basically going to court to declare your son or daughter incompetent, and there's a loss of legal rights. So it can be cumbersome; it can be expensive; there's annual reporting, that has to be done by the guardian to the courts. But again, for some, it can be the right and necessary path for a family given their, the medical condition and the level of disability of their son or daughter.

Patrick Cadigan: 6:56

Okay, so let's take it from that perspective, what are some of the benefits of guardianship

Meghan Smallwood: 7:01

So guardianship will really allow the parent or guardian to deal directly with those medical providers, banks, credit cards, if there are any, public benefits, housing programs, you know, agencies, out any agency providers just on the person's behalf. For some parents, guardianships and important tool that really helps them ensure their family member with special needs is protected now and after they're gone. And it can really ensure that the individual with special needs is not being taken advantage of, and that you know, if there's medical medical conditions that they're receiving the proper medical attention.

Patrick Cadigan: 7:36

Okay, so then what would some of the downsides of guardianship be?

Meghan Smallwood: 7:42

I think the biggest one, that I really want to stress, is that once guardianship is created through the courts, it can be almost impossible to undo. So again, it's like that last, last tool in the toolbox in a sense, like...it's so important just to research and make sure that you ruled out any other alternative that could be, you know, helpful for the family. So also, like we said, if your son or daughter is capable of making some of their own decisions, one of the decisions they might make is that they don't want to have a guardian. You know, maybe they want someone to help them make decisions, but they don't want someone making those decisions for them. You know, there could be an alternative that might work better. So, you know, that's something to consider.

Patrick Cadigan: 8:29

I could see though, that could be a very provocative situation for some families.

Meghan Smallwood: 8:35

Yeah, absolutely. And I know, I'm going off tangent here, I have a lot of families that come to me at 18. And they say, Oh, my God, my child's turning 18 next week, I need to go to the court right now families are telling me or people I know are saying, I need guardianship. No one's gonna talk to me. It's not, it's not like that. I always try to tell families take a breath, you know, it's yes, you do get the doctors always saying, you know, they're gonna be 18 you're not gonna be able to come into the room with them this and that. But it's not like, boom, they turn 18 It has to be done. I know families who have gone maybe when they were 19, or 20, or 21. If they decided guardianship was the right path for them. But there are other alternatives that can be put in place in the meantime to try first and if it doesn't work out, then guardianship can be an option. But just, it's good to research.

Patrick Cadigan: 9:27

Other, other options. I think that sounds like a future episode.

Meghan Smallwood: 9:31

Yeah, absolutely...

Patrick Cadigan: 9:33

So...

Meghan Smallwood: 9:34

...there's many. But it's it's so important just to consider it because when you do go to court for guardianship, you know, and you're facing in front of the judge, you really do have to explain why your son or daughter is not able to make these decisions. And basically, like we said, declaring them incompetent. And again, there are situations this is right on, this is what you need for your family, but it's just important to consider.

Patrick Cadigan: 10:07

So what are some questions that every family should be asking before making that decision to pursue something like guardianship?

Meghan Smallwood: 10:17

I think the biggest is whether your loved one is lacking the mental capacity to appreciate the nature of decision making. And I know, we always jump to, they need my help. I mean, we're teachers, we're kind of guilty of that, too, I gotta help them, you know, but even if they're not able to communicate their wants or needs in the most conventional Wait, if they do have a form of communication, you know, they are making decisions, they're making choices. So it just needs to be considered before jumping to guardianship about that. I know a lot of families, especially when medical conditions come into play. They worry, you know, is my loved one vulnerable, you know, they don't want their loved one to be taken advantage of. And I totally understand that. And do they need protection? You know, it's just, it's, it's one way I think families can protect their loved one, because they will have full control. And I had a parent say to me once, and and you know, it kind of just made me step back for a minute. "Well, I'm their mom." And I said, "Yeah, I understand that. But they're at now they're an adult." And they said, "But I'm still their mom. Well, I should have a say." And I'm like, "Yeah, I totally agree. But this is what we're faced with, unfortunately."

Patrick Cadigan: 11:31

What are the next steps that families would go through to achieve guardianship? What do they do?

Meghan Smallwood: 11:37

So, if you ultimately decide guardianship is the right decision for your family, I would advise consulting an attorney for assistance with the process. I do know families who have gone on their own and taking care of it, you can find all the necessary documents on the circuit court website. And can you can complete the process on their own on your own. But it is helpful, just you know, because it's a big decision to consult an attorney. I know for the preparation of a guardianship petition, the court requires some documentation, you know, just the basic contact information, you know, basic information about you and your son or daughter descriptions of the disability condition or the health status. They also required two documents completed by physicians. If you only have one physician for your son or daughter, then they also will accept like a licensed social worker, or a psychologist and other, you know, practitioner that your child might see and can complete. I will say a school psychologist cannot complete the form needed for guardianship. We've been asked that before, but they're not allowed to. They'll also ask for any other, you know, copies of if you had power of attorney or advanced medical directives in place, if your loved one has a will, any estate planning documents, basically any other financial assets as Well just to get the full picture. So I think, ultimately, our advice is you need to make the decision that works best for you and your family. It is helpful to talk to other families who have gone through the process of guardianship. But it's also important to talk to those who might have done alternatives to guardianship and hear why they chose what they did. And to hear about their experiences. Just consider all options. And don't automatically feel pressured just because they're turning 18, it has to be done right now make sure to do the research and just make the best decision for your family.

Patrick Cadigan: 13:33

Now, I'll throw it out there that I literally know nothing about this process. But I know that there has been a lot of discussion about it in some of the Facebook groups that we belong to. And one of the things, as I have read through those discussions, and through those questions and stuff, is that you I really do feel like you kind of have to be careful what you say to someone because it again, like we've always talked about the transition process in general, it is...it seems to me to be a very individualized experience like what one...

Meghan Smallwood: 14:05

Absolutely.

Patrick Cadigan: 14:06

...yeah, what one family's experiences, you know, another family might not necessarily have that experience. And it depends on their, their child, the level of need, all those discussions, and it's a lot of information. And I've really found it interesting, and in some cases, honestly frustrating to hear about the some of the things that people are going through.

Meghan Smallwood: 14:27

Yeah, and I know it's so hard because, like you said, it's completely individualized. But, you know, parents often are really looking to find someone who's just like them in their shoes, to relate to them to know what the answer is because that's a hard decision to make. But I think just gathering a bunch of different experiences can help you form your own opinion, hopefully. And I know with my situation, you know, when we went to court and we stood in front of the judge, and you know, basically had her declare incompetent. I didn't know much then you know, I was just starting out in my career, and my parents just said, we're doing guardianship, but I don't think they were aware of any alternatives. I think they were kind of led to believe this is what needs to be done. And in retrospect, kind of wonder if it really didn't need to be done. I mean, my sister does need assistance, but she does make decisions. And I think, you know, it's still possible. And one of the things I always hear is that, you know, you lose the right to vote when my sister does vote, so maybe it's different in she's in New York, maybe it's different. That's something I don't know. But it is good to ask those kinds of questions, too, if you consult an attorney to move forward with guardianship.

Patrick Cadigan: 15:40

That was one of my questions actually is like, do you. looking back...do you think that there was possibilities for different possibilities for different directions, so to speak?

Meghan Smallwood: 15:48

Yeah, I do. I think, you know, knowing what I know, now, I think she definitely would have been fine with like supported decision making. But you know, it's a different time. And I think my parents, resources weren't as heavily available to them. So they did what they thought was best. And that's where we're at.

Patrick Cadigan: 16:07

Definitely a loaded topic. Now we get to transition into our Well, That's Helpful resource, and I did it last time. So that means it Meghan, you're up.

Meghan Smallwood: 16:19

And I have a good one. It is Shared Support Maryland. I really think highly of this organization. Gail Godwin is the founder. And just a side note, she just recently received the 2023 Virtual Celebration of Excellence from the ARC of Howard County for her excellence and professional services. But Shared Support Maryland provide support through person directed planning and organizational change to individuals with levels of all disabilities. And basically, they offer a variety of services. But the biggest one that I know about from them is support brokerage for self-directed. Gail has been kind enough to do a number of workshops for Howard County, over the years to share with families you know, information on self-directed and to help them process what it might be like and you know, what the future will look like. But Shared Support focuses on personalized support and services. They believe that people have the right to the quality of life that they define, regardless of their disability. So they don't operate day program. They don't have sheltered workshops or group homes, they help individuals choose their living situations. They help their individuals choose what they'd like to do during the day. And they help with the planning and implementation, which can be difficult at times. But in the long run, people are satisfied with their lives and the support that they pay for. I think that their website is chock full of great information. And if you subscribe on their website, you can receive information about trainings and updates, because they do provide a lot of trainings. I get their emails a lot. And I'm just always fascinated with, you know, the plethora that they provide. So their website, it is www.sharedsupportmd.org.

Patrick Cadigan: 18:07

That's gonna move us into following the information from this and other conversations, which is going to be in our show notes, like, follow and please share out the podcast, especially to families that you know, that are going through the process. You can also check out our YouTube channel, we have videos of all our conversations, including doing some of the legwork for you by curating videos of the topics that revolve around transition. We've created playlists that cover guardianship alternatives to guardianship ABLE accounts, and there will be more to come. So be sure to subscribe there, as well. Finally, you can check out our website, which is chockfull of information around the transition process. You can find our contact information there. We've even started a blog there also. Go to www.postsecondarytransition.com. And it is all there. All right, Meghan. So what do we have coming up for our next gig? We're gonna put our interview hat back on. And we're going to talk with Liz Burley who was a transition coordinator for many years in a neighboring county as it stands. So I am really curious to talk with her and see about her experiences and what she has to, what she thinks of the transition process. So it should be good. Yeah.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:27

Yeah, that should be good fun.

Patrick Cadigan: 19:29

All right. Fantastic. Well, then, we're good. I think we're...

Meghan Smallwood: 19:32

Awesome.

Patrick Cadigan: 19:33

I think we're done. All right. Well, thank you, everybody, and we'll talk to everyone soon.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:38

All right. Thanks, everyone.

Patrick Cadigan: 19:39

Bye bye.

Meghan Smallwood: 19:41

Bye.